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  #16  
Old 03-04-2009, 07:21 PM
Senusret I Senusret I is offline
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I just want to add before the shit storm starts that just as I complain about people painting NPHCs with the same brush, there are many people who speak "on behalf" of the entire NPC about the AI process and what it "should" be for when the orgs really and truly speak for themselves. Some of the orgs really do welcome AIs and have no problem with being approached. Why is it that those orgs (still part of the NPC) are never mentioned in these conversations?

I actually really don't care about the answer to that question, lol

For the OP, there are two issues here.... the greekchat "sentiment" and the reality of the individual NPC orgs.

And I will continue to weigh in on this no matter where one thinks my lane is.
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  #17  
Old 03-04-2009, 07:22 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senusret I View Post
Not necessarily. People tend to forget that not all NPHC people in real life or on this board have the same opinions.
I dunno, maybe I'm weird. But I tend to think that it's out of place for people to insinuate that the way some of our orgs do AI is wrong or unfair in some way.

Also, it's worth pointing out (to the OP) that we all function differently. Every sorority does not do AI exactly alike.

Like Senusret I says, there are some whose policy dictates that it is totally acceptable to approach the sorority for membership. Others are the opposite.

If someone is SO opposed to the fact that a particular sorority does not allow/accept/welcome inquiries from PNAMs, then maybe that's not a sorority they want to be a part of (and they should look elsewhere for membership).

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Last edited by KSUViolet06; 03-04-2009 at 07:35 PM.
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  #18  
Old 03-04-2009, 07:36 PM
myopicsunflower myopicsunflower is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTXBelle View Post
It's simple: collegiate chapters are designed to recruite new members. Alumnae chapters are designed to enable alumnae to continue in the group they joined after they leave college. They are NOT meant to recruit - they are meant to be a continuation from college.
Cosign with my Triad Sister on this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OPhiAGinger View Post
I'm not suggesting that sororities must accept everyone who expresses an interest. Of course not!

But I feel bad for Patty PNAM, waiting around for Abigail Alumna to recognize what a fantastic sister she would be. This is analogous to the way well-bred young ladies in my mother's generation had to wait for men to ask them out. It was scandalous for the girls to ask a boy out back in the day. Why is it so wrong for Patty to express her interest? How will Abi know Patty is even interested otherwise? Maybe it's time for this social norm to catch up with other social norms, and encourage women to take more direct ownership of their own happiness rather than just waiting around for something to fall into their lap.
If Patty PNAM would truly be a fantastic sister, Abigail Alumna would see it without Patty calling her attention to it and, if Abigail's GLO initiates alumnae, she could bring up the subject. Abigail would know whether or not Patty was sister material for one or more of the following reasons:

A) Patty was already one of Abigail's good friends and demonstrated the traits and values that Abigail's GLO holds dear (and I add that traits and values part because just because someone is a rockin' friend doesn't necessarily mean she'd be a good sister),

B) Patty had been helping Abigail's GLO in some way and had a proven track record, or

C) Patty's daughter/stepdaughter/niece/etc was a sister of Abigail's GLO and had supported the sisterhood for some time.

Let me also add that Abigail Alumna may be best friends with Nancy Non-Greek, and Nancy might be an exceptional woman with multiple Nobel Peace Prizes, a load of Olympic Gold Medals, and a patent on the cure for cancer, but she may not be interested in alumnae initiation, even if Abigail wants to sponsor her and brings up the topic.
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  #19  
Old 03-04-2009, 07:47 PM
VandalSquirrel VandalSquirrel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OPhiAGinger View Post
My GLO doesn't offer an AI path to full membership, so I've been fascinated by the divergent and very vocal opinions on AI offered here at GC. I believe the unwavering support and mature leadership of a sorority's alumnae are its strength, so the idea of attracting new members at the alumnae level seems like a good idea to me. Granted, it's critical that the new members who join in that way understand the difference between membership as an alumna and membership as a collegiate -- that they're not trying to revive a missed collegiate experience -- but if they are ready to embrace the alumnae experience, that sounds like it would strengthen the sorority.

But there's one thing I'm still confused about. I'm completely addicted to the collegiate recruitment stories and can't count the number of times the PNMs were advised to keep an open mind and consider every chapter in their search for their new home. But when a PNAM comes along and mentions that she is researching three different sororities, she is lambasted for sorority shopping.

It seems like if you support the concept of mutual selection, it should apply at the AI level as well as the collegiate level.

It just makes me sad to think of strong, smart professionals being turned away from an organization that they want to devote time, energy, and money to....
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOEforme View Post
IMO, it the fact that during your collegiate years, you're looking for a group of women who you most mesh with based on their personality. As an alum, you join an organization whose ideals and objectives you most identify with.

I'd almost compare it to the NPHC: you DON'T openly examine several groups. You research, choose the one with whom you most identify, and pursue membership only in that organization. Not multiple.

That's how I feel about it anyways. As an alum, you're not having sisterhoods and fraternity mixers. You aren't living with a bunch of your BFFs. You're choosing a group to volunteer with and programs to further. So, I think it's kind of a different story.

Just my two cents.... as far as I know, Alpha Ep doesn't allow AI either, so I haven't personally experienced this, so I may be far off. It's just how I view the topic.
Neither of you are members of an NPC sorority (If I am wrong I apologize) so I don't think you completely understand how we do things, and why. You may have been on campus with or rushed NPC groups, but each chapter, of each group, varies and since we only agree to certain unanimous agreements, we decide on membership for collegiate and alumnae members on our own terms. This also varies from chapter to chapter, and year to year. An AI or PNM may not have a snowball's chance in hell when certain people are involved, or depending on the dynamic at that time, but that can change completely for whatever reason. I respect (but not necessarily agree) with the membership choices made with my own chapter and sorority, let alone with all my NPC sisters, but unless there is something that violates our values or is outright wrong, I need to respect those decisions.

Also your generalization about how we pick groups is wrong. I know women in every sorority and wouldn't have joined based on personality of the group. I made a choice that had to do with Alpha Gam, and in fact there are sisters who are my bffs, my two bffs in the world are not Alpha Gams. There are people who have touched my life and other reasons I became an Alpha Gam, and I know other women (not just on GC) chose a group for personal reasons that have nothing to do with the personality of the women at rush. A lot of women see the "big picture" and that's how we operate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senusret I View Post
Unpopular opinion: Are NPC orgs really doing that much for humanity that women would rather join a sorority as an alum over the Junior League, the Order of the Eastern Star, or as volunteers and board members of their favorite nonprofits?

In the District of Columbia I don't see it.

That said, I do agree with OPhiAGinger in that there is inconsistency in the NPC messages about the paths to membership that goes beyond each NPC having their own alumnae or honorary membership process.

It wouldn't kill an NPC or two to have an AI process which was structured more like an NPHC sorority -- and it wouldn't kill an NPC to have no AI process at all.

Take it to the convention floor, ladies! Some of the gates are wide open.
I can see AI happening in an area without those organizations, but with a college, for example where I live there are two land grant universities, and the nearest Junior League and Eastern Star are about 90 miles away. Some places are hard to find advisors and involvement, and I've even advised a group that isn't mine due to there not being a lot of people who have the want or understanding to do it.

I think what you are perceiving as inconsistencies has to do with all 26 groups doing their own thing, but since we're all NPC members who agree to certain standards, we fall into a strange space. I really like that each group can do what they want as long as they follow the unanimous agreements. I know NPHC groups have some similarities in structure, and they are all NPHC members, but I'd never assume they had anything similar in membership intake, standards, or anything else.
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  #20  
Old 03-04-2009, 07:50 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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^^^Agreed.

Just because PNAMs are discouraged from contacting XYZ HQ doesn't mean that EVERYONE GETS TURNED AWAY. There are still women who get initiated into XYZ because well, members SEE how good of a fit they'd be.

If Patti PNAM is dedicated to XYZ and would make a good sister, alumnae will take notice, without her having to approach HQ.

I think OPhiAginger is making it out to seem like just because an HQ doesn't want PNAMs approaching them about AI, that a sorority accepts no one.

These orgs do see women in the comminity that would make good members and extend the invite of membership to them.
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Last edited by KSUViolet06; 09-17-2009 at 06:49 PM.
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  #21  
Old 03-04-2009, 07:56 PM
SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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Just curious - which are the NPC groups that welcome interest in AI from anyone? I was under the impression that none of the 26 did, but perhaps I am mistaken. I am confident that at least 12 that I know of do NOT.

One of the beauties of the NPC is that while we all are bound by the Unanimous Agreements, individual groups are free to handle everything else as they see fit.
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Last edited by SWTXBelle; 03-04-2009 at 07:59 PM.
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  #22  
Old 03-04-2009, 08:01 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTXBelle View Post
Just curious - which are the NPC groups that welcome interest in AI from anyone? I was under the impression that none of the 26 did, but perhaps I am mistaken. I am confident that at least 12 that I know of do NOT.
There are some who have AI info listed on their websites, but I can't say if that means they welcome interest from anyone.

Even if a sorority has a link on their webpage with AI info and contact info about it, I would consider that to be like a job posting or something, anybody can inquire about an app or something, but not everyone's going to get it.
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  #23  
Old 03-04-2009, 08:02 PM
VandalSquirrel VandalSquirrel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 View Post
^^^Agreed.

It's not like just because PNAMs are discouraged from contacting XYZ HQ that EVERYONE GETS TURNED AWAY. There are still women who get initiated into XYZ because well, members SEE how good of a fit they'd be.

If Patti PNAM is dedicated to XYZ and would make a good sister, alumnae will take notice, without her having to approach HQ.
I know that if my bff had the time (and there was a need where she lived) and Alpha Gam needed help, I would send my sisters her information, but I wouldn't say OMG! I know she'd be the best potential Alpha Gam ever initiate her! If they were open to AI they'd probably suggest it on their own, but I know it wouldn't cross her mind to ask for membership. She'd do it because a) she works with students and likes to mentor b) Alpha Gam is important to me and she sees the value in it, even without membership and c) she has Type I diabetes and knows that's our international philanthropy.

I plan to be in higher ed. and I can easily see myself PMing you (KSUViolet) to send my information on to whoever the chapter advisor is in Fairbanks and offering to help them while I work on my PhD and being panhellenic because we don't have a chapter there, yet I value and support other groups. I really see AI being more frequent in rural and isolated areas due to lack of advisors than I see it in urban areas (que mad dash of women who want AI to fulfill their dreams to land grant colleges in the boonies).
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  #24  
Old 03-04-2009, 08:07 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel View Post

I plan to be in higher ed. and I can easily see myself PMing you (KSUViolet) to send my information on to whoever the chapter advisor is in Fairbanks and offering to help them while I work on my PhD and being panhellenic because we don't have a chapter there, yet I value and support other groups. I really see AI being more frequent in rural and isolated areas due to lack of advisors than I see it in urban areas (que mad dash of women who want AI to fulfill their dreams to land grant colleges in the boonies).
Cool. I am not certain if Sigma allows non-member advisors at this time though, but I would need to check on that. That's so nice of you to offer!

Honestly, I think that that's part of the reason that my sorority offers AI, because they want to provide chapters with qualified advisors where there are none. I personally think that's great.

However, I am not sure it exists to fulfill middle-aged women's dreams of being in sorority. If you're willing to SERVE Sigma, great. I'm all for it. But if all you can tell me is that it hsas been your "dream" to be a Sigma since undergrad, I tend to think you're a little suspect. It's not about what Sigma can do for you, but what YOU can do for Sigma.
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Last edited by KSUViolet06; 03-04-2009 at 08:10 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-04-2009, 08:19 PM
SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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To further clarify - are those groups with AI information on their website directing that information to their members (who would then be able to make use of the information) or to random non-members? That would indicate whether or not the group welcomed inquiries from those interested.
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  #26  
Old 03-04-2009, 08:21 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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Originally Posted by SWTXBelle View Post
To further clarify - are those groups with AI information on their website directing that information to their members (who would then be able to make use of the information) or to random non-members? That would indicate whether or not the group welcomed inquiries from those interested.
I think there are a few.

FYI: There were quite a few who USED to have this type of stuff available on their sites but took it down because they were getting WAY too many inquiries and people were mistakenly thinking things like I apply = I get to be an XYZ.
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  #27  
Old 03-04-2009, 08:22 PM
AGDee AGDee is offline
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I think AI is so special and unique to each group that you can't really make any blanket statements about it. I really see AI approached as a case by case basis, depending on the merit of each case, the needs of the geographic area and the ties the person to has to the organization already. And, I like it that way, personally. Each AI that I know personally ended being an AI in a different way but each was determined appropriate based on the individual situation.
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  #28  
Old 03-04-2009, 08:23 PM
BabyPiNK_FL BabyPiNK_FL is offline
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I would love it if my NPC group (since if I attempt to say ALL I'd have my arm bitten off) had something similar to NPHC alumni intake process. I do feel that there are people of value who may find an organization interesting. I don't think it's right to hold it against some people that they did not go through recruitment. To me that is a lame excuse.

Not everyone is cut out for that, no everyone has the opportunity. Some people couldn't afford it, some people didn't make the cut for pathetic reasons based on an 19 year old's opinion, some people had other activities that demanded far too much of their time, some people didn't have the grades, some people didn't see the value in it at the time but have seen the light and regret it, etc. Who am I to hold the past against them (with the exception of those "special" situations [ie. crazy people]).

Also, I think it would encourage alumna associations to play an even more active role in their groups.

NPHC manages to do it and does it very successfully. While I don't think every org. should be required to, I think it has the potential to really change the scope of an organization for the better. There are so many people who aren't Greek - and while they don't all have to be Greek I must admit they would make very good candidates and eventually members.

Why should they be denied simply because in the past it has "been that way"? Things/people/companies/organizations/policies, can and do change all the time. Why should teenagers and young adults be the only ones building membership in our organizations?
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  #29  
Old 03-04-2009, 08:24 PM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 View Post


If you're willing to SERVE Sigma, great. I'm all for it. But if all you can tell me is that it hsas been your "dream" to be a Sigma since undergrad, I tend to think you're a little suspect. It's not about what Sigma can do for you, but what YOU can do for Sigma.
And this is the difference. We recruit and have an elaborate mutual selection process for the undergraduate experience because believe in what the all the groups offer undergraduate women.

AI is about serving a particular group and the interest of the group. There's no general experience that we think women should select among.

(I mean any of the NPCs that offer AI, not that I'm speaking for Sigma.)
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  #30  
Old 03-04-2009, 08:27 PM
SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 View Post
I think there are a few.

FYI: There were quite a few who USED to have this type of stuff available on their sites but took it down because they were getting WAY too many inquiries and people were mistakenly thinking things like I apply = I get to be an XYZ.
I wonder if the information is now in the "members only" section.
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