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Risk Management - Hazing & etc. This forum covers Risk Management topics such as: Hazing, Alcohol Abuse/Awareness, Date Rape Awareness, Eating Disorder Prevention, Liability, etc.


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  #61  
Old 06-19-2007, 02:56 PM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat View Post
Kevin, I agree, but the operative word is if. If there's something in this thread that shows that this was in fact the case in this thread (other than queenofpink's hearsay), I have missed it.
I don't mean to be thick, but isn't her dying of a combination of cocaine and alcohol proof that she used them. (ETA: I realize that the "if" was connected to attendance and use at a GLO event, rather than the use itself, now.)

I understand that it doesn't establish she was the kind of regular user that could have been addressed with intervention from the chapter.

But there's something to be learned that might help our groups if our members understand the very serious risks of using, even one time use.

I doubt most people would risk being dorky enough to try to prevent a friend from using in the moment or to to make sure they were alright if it appeared that they were under the influence (especially because a lot of us take being under the influence for granted for college kids on a weekend or at a party). However, this case is another example of how one friend, any friend, it's not restricted to GLO sisters, could have maybe saved this woman's life if they had realized her level of intoxication and impairment.

Last edited by UGAalum94; 06-19-2007 at 03:04 PM.
  #62  
Old 06-19-2007, 02:59 PM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
Death is not a teachable moment and people who try to make it one are absolutely revolting.
I'm sorry I and many others revolt you, but I think your statement that death is not a "teachable moment" is either very naive or very short-sighted.

During the past year, one high school in my county lost six students in three wrecks involving drunk driving. You'd better believe that the school, with support and assistance from parents of the students killed, are using these deaths as "teachable moments," and rightly so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphagamuga View Post
I don't mean to be thick, but isn't her dying of a combination of cocaine and alcohol proof that she used them.
Oh, of course it is. I was responding more to the statement that "If someone's showing up to events already wasted, and indeed goes on to die from the intoxicated condition which existed during the time she was at the event, it should be fair to say that the chapter was on notice that she was using." (Emphasis mine.)

It's clear that she used alcohol and cocaine together. It might be inferred that she had done so before or that she did so in a way (such as by being high throughout the formal) that should have put others on notice of what she was doing, but the information we seem to have doesn't really say one way or the other. It's possible the real drinking/cocaine using didn't start until later in the evening/earlier in the morning. I can guess, but that's all it is -- a guess. I don't know one way or the other.

Either way, there are certainly lessons here. I'm simply cautioning against making assumptions without adequate facts to support those assumptions, that's all.
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Last edited by MysticCat; 06-19-2007 at 03:09 PM. Reason: Edited to add response to Alphagamuga
  #63  
Old 06-19-2007, 03:09 PM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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Originally Posted by MysticCat View Post

During the past year, one high school in my county lost six students in three wrecks involving drunk driving. You'd better believe that the school, with support and assistance from parents of the students killed, are using these deaths as "teachable moments," and rightly so.
Wow. I'm around teenagers a lot but their inability to recognize their own mortality is sometimes astounding. Three wrecks? Six kids? It's incredibly sad. The only possible good that could come of it would be if other kids really did learn something from the tragic loss of these six.
  #64  
Old 06-19-2007, 03:14 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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I'm sorry I and many others revolt you, but I think your statement that death is not a "teachable moment" is either very naive or very short-sighted.

During the past year, one high school in my county lost six students in three wrecks involving drunk driving. You'd better believe that the school, with support and assistance from parents of the students killed, are using these deaths as "teachable moments," and rightly so.
It's one thing to mourn the students and for the students to realize that can happen to them - I don't think you need to hit them over the head with that. It's quite another to say in effect "if they would have terminated this cokehead and she wasn't in the sorority any more they would be fine." Not to mention assuming someone is a longtime, hardcore user when they could have been trying drugs or alcohol for the first time.

And even that isn't true - wasn't there an incident a few years ago where a girl died of alcohol poisoning, and she was a former member of a sorority (she had dropped out the semester or year before, I believe). It STILL was reported in the media that she was a member of that sorority. So even if this woman would have no longer been a member, Alpha Phi's name might have gotten dragged into it anyway.

A friend of mine died the summer after I graduated, and because he happened to have had a few drinks at a fraternity house the night it happened, it turned into a giant anti-Greek crusade "for his sake." Did I mention no actual members of the fraternity were there (they rented to nonmembers)? Did I mention he had been to about 3 other parties (all non-Greek) the same evening? Did I mention that becoming a poster child for temperance and having the finger pointed at the Greek system was the last thing he wanted? Did I mention it was the last thing his FAMILY wanted?

So sorry if I get a little upset about things like this, but when you've seen a friend be USED for a crusade he would have wanted NOTHING to do with in his life, you might think a little differently.
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  #65  
Old 06-19-2007, 03:17 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Originally Posted by Alphagamuga View Post
I agree that Kevin's post would seem harsh to members of her group and her family, (and personally, I was a little troubled my the "group should cut it's losses" element because I like to think the bond is a little deeper than that) but I doubt he really had them in mind as his audience, seeing the topic of the forum and all.

From the perspective of the group, if you have a sister or brother you know is using drugs, and the sister or brother isn't receptive to quitting or treatment, it does create an extra liability for the group.
The point is that there was NO proof (none has been offered so far) that she was a regular or even casual cocaine user.
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  #66  
Old 06-19-2007, 03:30 PM
LaneSig LaneSig is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
The point is that there was NO proof (none has been offered so far) that she was a regular or even casual cocaine user.
If this poor girl used cocaine the night she died, and died from cocaine use, doesn't that make her a casual user?

And let me clarify, even if she used it for the first time that evening, doesn't that equal casual use?
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  #67  
Old 06-19-2007, 03:31 PM
cuteASAbug cuteASAbug is offline
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If she used it for the first time the night she died, does that make her a casual user?
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  #68  
Old 06-19-2007, 03:32 PM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
It's one thing . . . for the students to realize that can happen to them . . .
. . . which, by definitition is a teachable moment.

Quote:
So sorry if I get a little upset about things like this, but when you've seen a friend be USED for a crusade he would have wanted NOTHING to do with in his life, you might think a little differently.
I'm very sorry about your friend and the aftermath of his death. I am sorry that his death was exploited, especially in a way that his family and friends could see did not honor his memory.

But I think you are confusing the neutral concept of a "teachable moment" -- which simply means a situation that opens the door for difficult but necessary discussions -- with "exploitation."
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  #69  
Old 06-19-2007, 03:52 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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But I think you are confusing the neutral concept of a "teachable moment" -- which simply means a situation that opens the door for difficult but necessary discussions -- with "exploitation."
I don't think I am.

Oh, and by "casual user" I meant someone who only uses it once in a while, as opposed to someone with a giant coke problem (i.e. using multiple times a day every day). I don't believe trying something once makes you a user, not in this context.
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  #70  
Old 06-19-2007, 03:57 PM
Tom Earp Tom Earp is offline
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Sorry, but with this type of drug, there is no casual user. It is addictive and a killer.

She ended her life at a short notice and it is no one elses fault as they try to cover it up!
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  #71  
Old 06-19-2007, 04:03 PM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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I don't think I am.
If some kids in your son or daughter's high school were killed because they got into a car with a driver who'd been drinking, would you think it appropriate or inappropriate to use that event as an opportunity to talk with your own kid about drinking and driving?
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  #72  
Old 06-19-2007, 04:11 PM
Drolefille Drolefille is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom Earp View Post
Sorry, but with this type of drug, there is no casual user. It is addictive and a killer.

She ended her life at a short notice and it is no one elses fault as they try to cover it up!
That's not true.

And WTF?
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  #73  
Old 06-19-2007, 04:13 PM
OtterXO OtterXO is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom Earp View Post
Sorry, but with this type of drug, there is no casual user. It is addictive and a killer.

She ended her life at a short notice and it is no one elses fault as they try to cover it up!
And out of left field, once again....

ETA: seriously, WTF?
  #74  
Old 06-19-2007, 04:13 PM
cuteASAbug cuteASAbug is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom Earp View Post
Sorry, but with this type of drug, there is no casual user. It is addictive and a killer.

She ended her life at a short notice and it is no one elses fault as they try to cover it up!
Did I miss something? Who tried to cover up her death?
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  #75  
Old 06-19-2007, 04:14 PM
Drolefille Drolefille is offline
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Originally Posted by cuteASAbug View Post
Did I miss something? Who tried to cover up her death?
Yeah, that was the WTF part.

He's just wrong about the cocaine use.
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