Universities Under Investigation Re: Handling Sexual Assault

[SydneyK]

Ok. So I just went back and read all 16 pages. I should've done that before posting earlier. (I even read the entire Duke thread Kevin posted, just for fun.)

I don't think honorgal is a troll.

I don't think it's either fair or accurate to say that either the victim is lying or that the accused is lying. I agree with Low D Flat - it's possible that both parties remember the same event differently.

I don't think our colleges/universities should have to shoulder the responsibility of determining someone's innocence or guilt in regards to rape cases. Nor do I think it's appropriate to oust a student based on an accusation of rape.

Having a husband who has worked in college administration does not qualify someone as having a "front row" seat to the inner workings of administration. I've personally been a part of many university administrative meetings, and to think that that qualifies my husband as a knowledgeable commenter on such subjects is laughable.

Originally Posted by honorgal

And that's usually what happens when a solution is devised for a non-problem.

It may be a non-problem in your eyes, but to a college/university administration, it's helpful and comforting to have a solution/response to situations regarding student-safety concerns.

Dr. Phil, in an attempt to bring something new to the discussion, are you familiar with the University of Kentucky's green dot/VIP program?

http://www.uky.edu/StudentAffairs/VI...n_greendot.php

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

As for anything new, Dr. Phil, two things:

1) Five schools added to the list: University of Alaska system, the University of Delaware, Elmira College in New York, the University of Akron in Ohio and Cisco Junior College in Texas.

2) Some schools have released responses. At least one school is claiming this is just a routine audit:

http://news.iu.edu/releases/iu/2014/...tigation.shtml

Originally Posted by SydneyK

Dr. Phil, in an attempt to bring something new to the discussion, are you familiar with the University of Kentucky's green dot/VIP program?

http://www.uky.edu/StudentAffairs/VIPCenter/learn_greendot.php

Thank you.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

Ok. So I just went back and read all 16 pages. I should've done that before posting earlier. (I even read the entire Duke thread Kevin posted, just for fun.)

I don't think honorgal is a troll.

I don't think it's either fair or accurate to say that either the victim is lying or that the accused is lying. I agree with Low D Flat - it's possible that both parties remember the same event differently.

Absolutely agree.

Having a husband who has worked in college administration does not qualify someone as having a "front row" seat to the inner workings of administration.

I never made this claim. I was responding specifically to this from another poster:

I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from. When someone gets on a soapbox the way you have, they tend to provide some background for perspective

It may be a non-problem in your eyes, but to a college/university administration, it's helpful and comforting to have a solution/response to situations regarding student-safety concerns.

I find it hard to reconcile the above statement with your earlier one:

I don't think our colleges/universities should have to shoulder the responsibility of determining someone's innocence or guilt in regards to rape cases. Nor do I think it's appropriate to oust a student based on an accusation of rape.

Colleges are having to shoulder the responsibility, and they are ousting students based on nothing more than accusations.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by honorgal

I find it hard to reconcile the above statement with your earlier one:

One statement had to do with schools shouldering the responsibility for student safety, the other with schools shouldering the responsibility for determining guilt.

[WhiteRose1912]

Originally Posted by honorgal

Google "college rape crisis" and you get 12 million hits.

I have no desire to get involved in... whatever this thread has turned into... but Googling "college rape crisis" as opposed to college rape crisis (which turns up hits for college and/or rape and/or crisis, as well as their synonyms) gets 89k results, not 12mil. I don't think any given quantity of search results lends credence to anything, but I couldn't let that slip.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

I don't think it's either fair or accurate to say that either the victim is lying or that the accused is lying. I agree with Low D Flat - it's possible that both parties remember the same event differently.

That's fair, of course people don't remember events in exactly identical detail*. My point, however, is that when you have two different stories, I don't think that the default should be that the accused is giving the correct version of events and the alleged victim is not. While that makes sense in the official criminal justice system, I think universities should use a lower burden of proof (as does Title IX).

Obviously a lot of people disagree with me, and feel that universities should not expel someone unless they have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that a rape occurred. Many other university honor code violations are handled in this manner, and I see no reason that, when rape is on the table, we suddenly need to give more weight to what is said by the accused and/or need to suddenly go out of our way to try to discredit the victim.

*Also note that consent, or a lack thereof, is usually clear. Rapists know what they are doing as they do it.

[DrPhil]

Wasn't that covered pages ago? I'm not trying to be funny, I just want to know if this thread is intentionally being redundant.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Wasn't that covered pages ago? I'm not trying to be funny, I just want to know if this thread is intentionally being redundant.

Yeah, for the most past, but I didn't want my position to be mischaracterized, because I did say "someone is lying" earlier, and I'm not so stupid as to think that memory is perfect.

[exlurker]

Johns Hopkins -- Federal Investigation Re: Alleged Rape

See the story in the August 12 JHU student paper online:

http://www.jhunewsletter.com/2014/08...gations-94291/

[SOM]

76 Colleges Are Now Under Investigation For How They Handled Sex Assault Cases http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5675564.html

[ASTalumna06]

University Of Kansas Considered Community Service Too 'Punitive' For Rape Punishment:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/57316...cs&ir=Politics

[LillyPhi]

This is a very interesting article.....Columbia University student carries mattress until her rapist is finally expelled....

http://nypost.com/2014/09/02/ivy-stu...isnt-expelled/

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by LillyPhi

This is a very interesting article.....Columbia University student carries mattress until her rapist is finally expelled....

http://nypost.com/2014/09/02/ivy-stu...isnt-expelled/

I just came here to post about this. I only had to get a few paragraphs in before I simply couldn't believe what I was reading. Three different women have filed complaints, and this guy is still allowed to stay in school. At what point does it become too much?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-yes-means-yes

While most students at Columbia University will spend the first day of classes carrying backpacks and books, Emma Sulkowicz will start her semester on Tuesday with a far heavier burden. The senior plans on carrying an extra-long, twin-size mattress across the quad and through each New York City building – to every class, every day – until the man she says raped her moves off campus.

“I was raped in my own bed,” Sulkowicz told me the other day, as she was gearing up to head back to school in this, the year American colleges are finally, supposedly, ready to do something about sexual assault. “I could have taken my pillow, but I want people to see how it weighs down a person to be ignored by the school administration and harassed by police.”

Sulkowicz is one of three women who made complaints to Columbia against the same fellow senior, who was found “not responsible” in all three cases. She also filed a police report, but Sulkowicz was treated abysmally – by the cops, and by a Columbia disciplinary panel so uneducated about the scourge of campus violence that one panelist asked how it was possible to be anally raped without lubrication.

Apparently even an Ivy League school still doesn’t understand the old adage of “no means no”.

So Sulkowicz joined a federal complaint in April over Columbia’s mishandling of sexual misconduct cases, and she will will hoist that mattress on her shoulders as part savvy activism, part performance art. “The administration can end the piece, by expelling him,” she says, “or he can, by leaving campus.”

[DeltaBetaBaby]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/12/us...e-justice.html

[squirrely girl]

Originally Posted by honorgal

Colleges are having to shoulder the responsibility, and they are ousting students based on nothing more than accusations.

Yeah... that's still not a real thing.