Deactivation - please help! :(

[wildcat601]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Lots of people have issues with Nationals micromanaging or, to put it plainly, wanting the chapter to be something different than the actual members want it to be. Trust me you are NOT a unique snowflake on this.

Trust me, I know.

Originally Posted by 33girl

If your advisors aren't being helpful, the chapter needs to tell your national council that their actions are harming the reputation of the chapter on campus and that membership numbers are going down because of it. Some advisors and national volunteers are not well prepared and don't know what they're doing. Unfortunately, they are often the ones who end up consulting chapters who need advisory and volunteer help the most. I'll probably get raked over the coals for that statement but it's the truth.

This was well said. Though there are many girls in my chapter that are unhappy with our advisors, we were afraid that complaining would only result in more disagreement/conflict. Hopefully we can use your idea to make some improvements!

Originally Posted by 33girl

That being said, it sounds like you joined the sorority more for a quickie resume builder than for true sisterly relationships.

Sorry, but that's not true. Because I already found true sisterly relationships (granted, not with everyone, but still), this was the least of my concerns. I thought I'd be able to maintain these relationships regardless of my membership in the chapter. The relationships are a given so the rest of my pros/cons involved the factors you underlined (e.g. mini Craigslist). Also, I joined because I was looking for sisterhood; a sorority is a far cry from a resume builder.
This is just for the record, because a couple other posters had similar comments. Again, I appreciate your response

[wildcat601]

Originally Posted by KDCat

24 months of hassle is worth it for a life time of sisterhood.

Thanks for the wisdom

[wildcat601]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Honestly, y'all?

It sounds less like she is upset that her sisters lost their membership (which is what usually ticks people off the most in situations like this) and more like she can't believe that someone didn't agree with her because she is so incredibly incredible.

That is not what happened. The girl whose membership was in question ultimately got to stay in the sorority. This issue was just one of many we've had with advisors in the past. The other issues came from working with advisors as philanthropy chair. They put a lot of pressure on us to raise more money, and then reject all of our ideas. I admit this is warranted in some cases. However, it's frustrating to have your idea rejected and then see your sorority at other colleges use that idea because their advisors approved it. (And for the record, these weren't all of my ideas -- it takes a chapter to plan a week of philanthropy events.)

I guess I haven't been around long enough to get the Tracy Flick reference.

[wildcat601]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I agree, 33, and as soon as she realizes that she doesn't know the whole story behind the actions of her organization's national body, she can work to move things along. I bet you $1,000 this is about risk management issues.

No, risk management is the least of my concerns. Issues with programming, specifically with philanthropy, were the catalyst for all of this. The most recent incident indirectly involved risk management, but that was essentially the last straw.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by wildcat601

That is not what happened. The girl whose membership was in question ultimately got to stay in the sorority. This issue was just one of many we've had with advisors in the past. The other issues came from working with advisors as philanthropy chair. They put a lot of pressure on us to raise more money, and then reject all of our ideas. I admit this is warranted in some cases. However, it's frustrating to have your idea rejected and then see your sorority at other colleges use that idea because their advisors approved it. (And for the record, these weren't all of my ideas -- it takes a chapter to plan a week of philanthropy events.)

I guess I haven't been around long enough to get the Tracy Flick reference.

Can you be more specific about the good philanthropy ideas that the advisors turned down?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by wildcat601

No, risk management is the least of my concerns. Issues with programming, specifically with philanthropy, were the catalyst for all of this. The most recent incident indirectly involved risk management, but that was essentially the last straw.

Yes, but that was the issue with your National organization. This is often a area of conflict between collegiates and advisers. Collegiates sometimes have a hard time seeing how their actions may effect the reputation, legal standing and health of their members, chapter and entire organization. That is where your advisers and national organization come in. It is their responsibility to make sure that you consider those repercussions and follow the regulations set forth by your group. These issues are NEVER about a single incident. That is why we tell you to realize you know only part of the story. National officers have to make very difficult decisions, and none of these women go in thinking "Yippee, I get to yank letters away from some collegiate bitch today."

[wildcat601]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I thought the same thing. This isn't a new member who just received a bid 2 weeks ago.. She's an involved sister who has serious doubts about sticking it out in a sorority that she's currently not completely happy being a part of.

Thank you!

As a PNM my sentiments were similar to a lot of posters on GC -- I didn't know a lot of the girls, I felt like I was being rushed into sisterhood and it didn't feel as automatic as I thought it should have, if that makes sense. I became philanthropy chair and it was frustrating to be pressured by advisors to raise more money, yet they rejected all of the committee's ideas. To be fair, I can see why some of them were rejected. However, there were some ideas we had borrowed from the national sorority's facebook page, which other advisors accepted but ours still rejected. In the end, I couldn't make any changes as philanthropy chair besides increasing donations.

Living in the house sophomore year helped me find my best friends, and I thought I had the "sisterhood thing" figured out. I signed up to be a recruitment assistant of sorts, which meant designing and creating the decorations for one of the days of recruitment. My co-chair and I had a committee of volunteers, and no one came to help us for the several months we worked on the project, so we were both very frustrated with our sisters and the idea that we were supposed to be there for each other. We had to spend something like 300 hours doing the work on our own.

There are also frustrations with things like attendance. Of course attending chapter meetings and such is important, but my excuses (submitted 24 hrs in advance and all of that) were rejected multiple times and no one notified me until I was a member in bad standing. I had to be excused because I have a fellowship, which is like a job, and had to argue to get my 'good standing' back. I don't mean to undervalue the benefits of a sorority, but things like my fellowship are really important for my career path, and I wonder if I should direct my time else where.

So, there have been some highs and lows. Through it all I've had my handful of best friends in the chapter. I've talked to them about quitting the sorority, and whether or not I'm a member won't affect our friendship. This makes me wonder why I'm going through the motions when I only do it for these friends. (Again -- I don't mean to knock sororities because I do think they can be fun and productive, I'm just not sure it's helping me get to where I want to go in life. Other poster's comments about the alumnae network have been helpful, though.)

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

You need to be honest with yourself about why the national organization got involved and was threatening to kick members out of the sorority. And remember, you might not know the whole story.

This issue happened at the end of my sophomore year, to one of my best friends and future roommates. At the time my roommate in the sorority house was on Exec. so I got to hear most of the details regarding the issue from Nationals's perspective. It's likely I don't know the whole story, but from what I discussed with the members of Exec and my friend, there were just flaws in the system that we couldn't clear up without risking more punishment. There was another incident where a girl was kicked out of the house, and that was reasonable. I'm trying to be fair, though I'm not sure if that comes off in these posts!

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Are you the only member who feels this way?

No. The majority of the members strongly dislike our advisors (I don't mean to knock all advisors or make them feel unappreciated -- just ours haha). Dinner conversations often mention how we love the other members but hate XYZ sorority. A lot of us wish we could just quit and then spend time with one another.
Granted not everyone feels that way. Our president doesn't have a problem with Nationals, which has caused a whole load of other issues haha.

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

It sounds to me like youre able to manage your time (contrary to what other posters here have suggested), but you just don't want to attend some of these things.

Thanks. Yes I can manage my time, it's just an issue of choosing my battles and getting enough sleep.

I appreciate your advice. Last semester, I stepped back considerably, and thankfully I have two more months to decide if I want to drop before the school year. Your insight about the alumnae network was really helpful -- that's not something that's discussed often so it's good to know that information. Thank you again for your time and thoughtful response, and I'm sorry mine is so long!

[AOII Angel]

Wow...I can really read the resentment for your national organization in your posts. You also sound very frustrated by the experiences you had trying to make changes. Realize that that is the nature of the beast in large organizations. Advisers and members may be set in their ways OR may know that a program wouldn't work on your campus. Not all campuses are the same, and a program touted on the national FB page may be wildly successful at State U and fall completely flat at U of State. Who knows...we don't know the situation. The thing that you should think about is that this is a learning experience. Navigating these situations successfully sets you up to handle similar situations in your job and adult life. You will NEVER get yOur way just because you have a great idea and it worked somewhere else. There will always be a boss who thinks they know better or is an ass. You will always have to know how to deal with people who are difficult to work with. Life is not a bed of roses. The fact that you hate XYZ is very short sighted. XYZ is not just the national officials who came in to fix a problem that you are not looking at critically (trust me when I say that we all know that they turn a blind eye to lot of things until they are pushed) because you like most people who are punished put on blinders and refuse to see the issues for what they really were. XYZ isn't just a group of pushy alums who volunteer their time to make sure your chapter stays strong...chapters without alum support tend to die off. XYZ is your sisterhood, and you made an oath to her and your sisters. It would serve you all well to wake up from your funk and just move on with the business of being members and making your chapter a great chapter.

[FSUZeta]

"This issue happened at the end of my sophomore year, to one of my best friends and future roommates. At the time my roommate in the sorority house was on Exec. so I got to hear most of the details regarding the issue from Nationals's perspective. It's likely I don't know the whole story, but from what I discussed with the members of Exec and my friend, there were just flaws in the system that we couldn't clear up without risking more punishment. There was another incident where a girl was kicked out of the house, and that was reasonable. I'm trying to be fair, though I'm not sure if that comes off in these posts!"

No, you were not seeing the issue from the National perspective, because your best friend on exec. was not privy to the National perspective, even if she thinks she was.

Did you ever try to cooperate with your advisors? Did you ask their advice on what philanthropic events they had in mind for the chapter to sponsor? Could it be that your chapter were in the running for some national or district or province award if you were able to raise more money? Could it be that the lines of communication between advisors and collegians has broken down? Have you asked yourself what you could do differently to improve the relationship between the advisors and the collegians?

[wildcat601]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

No, you were not seeing the issue from the National perspective, because your best friend on exec. was not privy to the National perspective, even if she thinks she was.

Fair enough

Did you ever try to cooperate with your advisors?
-While I'm not on exec, the philanthropy committee accepted their rejections and carried on with our jobs.

Did you ask their advice on what philanthropic events they had in mind for the chapter to sponsor?
-We did, but they didn't have suggestions. We do a lemonade stand, so their only idea was to have more locations. While we sold lemonade for an additional day, we couldn't have multiple locations due to the size of our chapter and available volunteers.

Could it be that your chapter were in the running for some national or district or province award if you were able to raise more money?
-That could be the case, but I think they would have said something. I'm aware of one award that nationals gives to strong chapters, but membership retention is the only issue that is keeping us from winning it.

Could it be that the lines of communication between advisors and collegians has broken down? Have you asked yourself what you could do differently to improve the relationship between the advisors and the collegians?
-There is miscommunication but I'm not sure how to fix it. Our advisors and exec seem to work against each other rather than together, even when advisors help with recruitment workshops and things like that.
-I have asked myself this question, and it seems like joining the exec board could help. However, our president refuses to listen to members (including members of exec), so we have big issues with how she represents the chapter as a liaison between us and Nationals. If you've had any experiences with this, or have ideas on how members can help improve this kind of situation, I'd love to hear your suggestions.

Thanks for taking the time to read about a random girl's concerns! I appreciate your help.

[wildcat601]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Can you be more specific about the philanthropy ideas that the advisors turned down?

Thanks for taking the time to read through all of this! I can't be too specific, as it'd give away my sorority, but I'll do what I can.

- Late night food: This is a popular fundraiser among sororities and fraternities at my school. Members cook and serve inexpensive food at their house (pancakes, pasta, etc.) for $5 from 10pm-1am. Over half of the other greek organizations have fundraisers like this, with more doing it every year. The profits are huge.

- Puns/slogans: These were more frustrating. To advertise for our philanthropy, we wanted to make banners and flyers with phrases that played off of our cause. We also wanted to sell tshirts with the phrases to raise more money. These were rejected and they didn't have any other suggestions when we asked for help. Later that month we saw banners with those phrases on our national facebook page, so that was frustrating as well.

It sounds stupid but the witty phrases do help raise money and awareness. For whatever reason, once a year another sorority on campus fundraises for a similar cause and they use slogans that are riskier than the ones we came up with. Their facebook event is much more popular and they raise more money in one day than we do in three.

[Cheerio]

Did you ever try to cooperate with your advisors? Did you ask their advice on what philanthropic events they had in mind for the chapter to sponsor? Could it be that your chapter were in the running for some national or district or province award if you were able to raise more money? Could it be that the lines of communication between advisors and collegians has broken down? Have you asked yourself what you could do differently to improve the relationship between the advisors and the collegians?

OP mentioned she felt micromanaged by her chapter's advisors (do I hear heli-Mom's taking on advisor roles now that their children are in college?)

Winning awards isn't always a chapter's main goal; sometimes meeting every goal set still doesn't get you The Award you are encouraged to seek.

Our chapter was encouraged to hold philanthropic events similar to those of our group's Top Overall Chapter. This proved difficult because Top Chapter member numbers were triple ours, and Top Chapter held outdoor car wash/Mr University contest/Dance Marathon while our campus preferred candy/bake sale events. Without high Philanthropic Numbers we were not considered well-rounded enough to win Top Chapter.

With our advisors and other small chapters, we asked our National Board to appreciate differences between campus cultures and made recommendations that standards for awards be changed. Thankfully National Board listened.

[wildcat601]

Originally Posted by 33girl

That kind of brings up another question. How DO the majority of the members think of you? Did they just elect you to positions because they thought you would do a good job, or are you genuinely popular in the chapter? I say this because it almost sounds like they have NO CLUE that you regard most of them as drama queens, fake etc. and that you've put forth a very successful "super sister" facade.

While I said there are a lot of dramatic/fake girls, I didn't say they comprised the majority. I have a handful of very good friends in the chapter, so there are maybe two handfuls of girls I don't like. The rest of the members are nice girls but I don't know them as well.

I think I'm generally liked, but I guess I can't be sure about the way in which I'm liked. Before elections several girls asked me to run for president, so whether or not that's because I'm popular or because I could do a good job, I don't know. People generally value my opinion, but I'm not sure how this relates to whether or not I stay in the chapter. If they wanted me out, they would act like they wanted me out IMHO.

[wildcat601]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

With our advisors and other small chapters, we asked our National Board to appreciate differences between campus cultures and made recommendations that standards for awards be changed. Thankfully National Board listened.

This is a good point. The culture of my school is very different from most of the other schools where we have chapters. Size is less of an issue, but we're very studious and involved, and sororities aren't the priority.

I quote from one of our advisors:
"You girls describe yourselves as smart and diverse. The girls at State U describe themselves as hot and sloppy. I'm not saying you should be sloppy, but you should be more like the girls at State U."

She also requested that we send her pictures of the girls we want to give bids, because "you guys did a great job with the freshmen in this year's pledge class, but not so much with the new sophomores." It's just very different from what we want to get out of our experience.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by wildcat601

This is a good point. The culture of my school is very different from most of the other schools where we have chapters. Size is less of an issue, but we're very studious and involved, and sororities aren't the priority.

I quote from one of our advisors:
"You girls describe yourselves as smart and diverse. The girls at State U describe themselves as hot and sloppy. I'm not saying you should be sloppy, but you should be more like the girls at State U."

She also requested that we send her pictures of the girls we want to give bids, because "you guys did a great job with the freshmen in this year's pledge class, but not so much with the new sophomores." It's just very different from what we want to get out of our experience.

In my experience a woman improves herself by being in a sorority, the sorority does not improve by a particular woman being in it.