Phi Delta Theta & Kappa Sigma Withdrawl from NIC (Official Phi Delt Statement)

[DeltaSigStan]

No, I forgot to mention. The Two Cultural GLos at the time had maybe 15-30 members. The IFC and PHC houses had the 100-200 houses.

Now the IFC houses have 25-80, the sororities have 75-100 besides one house, and the cultural greeks have maybe 15-30.

[Firehouse]

than before. In any case, there's no reason why any particular group can't pledge as many as they want. Often, it's just a matter of lack of vision or ambition. If your top competitor has only 80, then you may quit at 80 too, unless there is a leader in your chapter with the drive and ambition to create a fraternity that will dominate. If one chapter steps forward and becomes a substantially stronger fraternity than the others, then the others will rise to that standard just to compete.
Let's pretend that there are ten fraternities with 500 total members, on a campus with 10,000 strudents. OK, lets eliminate 6,000 of those students who are women. Take away the 500 Greek men and that leaves a total of 3,500 men on campus. Let's eliminate 2,000 of them for no particular reason; maybe we don't like them, they don't like us, they're seniors, they're not 'fraternity types'. That leaves 1,500 men to be divided among 10 fraternities, which already average 50 men each. That's an average of 150 rushees EXCLUSIVELY for each individual fraternity!!!
If I want to create a great chapter, I can make a living off those numbers.

[DeltaSigStan]

It's already been well documented within the University and the leaders of the greek community that numbers are down.

Talking with the other greeks, there are a few general theories SDSU greeks have:

1)The thing with the cultural GLOs.

2)Most of the parties are open, no lists, no greeks only, no special invites. This has caused a lot of randoms to think "why should I go through all the trouble of pledging a fraternity when I can party there any time and not have to join." Sure one can say "well who would want those people anyway?", but that is a substantial amount of people.

3) Apathy. SDSU has gotten really apathetic the last decade, and the University hasn't done much to change it. They want to get out of this "party school" reputation and be more academic. Well, there are many "party schools" that have excellent academic programs. There's really no reason to have to eliminate one for the other, when it's been shown that the two can work together at a school.

The biggest issues lately within the powers that be on campus are mascots, renaming landmarks on campus, and raising fees for things that will not help us or show any impact for us current students.

I think the overall attitude on campus has changed and the greek community has suffered.

Sorry to preach, but those are some reasons I've heard greeks say.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally posted by Optimist Prime
What does NIC do anyway? I thought they were just a collective bargaining thing for insurance.

You are thinking of FIPG, Fraternity Insurance Purchasing Group, which has members from both PHC and the NIC.

[modorney]

Firehouse and Madmax - it's now five years later, let's hear your thoughts.

You had some intelligent insights, the playing field has changed in 5 years, any different ideas?

[Dougie]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Phi Delt and Kappa Sig seem to be doing very well several years after leaving the NIC.

Did any other chapters end up joining FLA? I looked and saw that Phi Delt was not a member of the group. I'm assuming they stayed independant.

I'm pretty sure we have stayed independent. Well at least I can't remember my pledge manual mentioning anything about our membership in either group.

[AKAShannon]

It is going to be interesting to see if other NIC members leave as well. Maybe this move will serve as a "wake-up call" and some changes will be made by the NIC.

[kapsigcub]

Kappa Sigma has thrived since withdrawing from the NIC.

From the KS website:
"The Kappa Sigma Fraternity has officially set a new record for total men pledged in a single semester with the pledging of 4248 men in the Fall of 2007, marking the largest pledge class in the Fraternity’s history and the fifth-consecutive Fall semester where Kappa Sigma has broken its own record for men pledged."

Here's a link to the whole article:Kappa Sigma Sets New Recruitment Record!

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Phi Delt and Kappa Sig seem to be doing very well several years after leaving the NIC.

Did any other chapters end up joining FLA? I looked and saw that Phi Delt was not a member of the group. I'm assuming they stayed independent.

Current FLA members are Delta Kappa Epsilon, Kappa Sigma (founding member), Phi Sigma Kappa (founding member), Sigma Alpha Epsilon, Sigma Lambda Beta, and Sigma Pi. All but Kappa Sigma are also members of the NIC. According to some web searches, there are three other (NIC?) members that are also FLA members. However, I have only seen the previous mentioned six fraternities listed as members of the FLA.

Phi Delta Theta never joined the FLA and has remained "independent" since their withdrawal from the NIC. However, as an international fraternity, they (and Kappa Sigma) are treated the same within the campus IFC (NIC) structure. So on a campus level, it seems like there has been little to no impact. As such, both fraternities continue to do quite well.

Originally Posted by AKAShannon

It is going to be interesting to see if other NIC members leave as well. Maybe this move will serve as a "wake-up call" and some changes will be made by the NIC.

Since Kappa Sigma's, Phi Delta Theta's and Phi Sigma Kappa's withdrawal in 2002, Phi Sigma Kappa has rejoined the NIC. At that time (2006), Alpha Phi Alpha, Beta Chi Theta and Sigma Phi Delta also joined the NIC increasing the total of the NIC to 68 fraternities.

And for what it is worth, various fraternities have withdrawn from and rejoined later the NIC over the years. Frankly, I would not be surprised if either Kappa Sigma and/or Phi Delta Theta did not rejoin the NIC at some point.

[Ilaria Ame]

i've done some research and am still confused, so i apologize if this question could be answered elsewhere, but what is the difference between the IFC and the NIC? are they the same group? is one part of the other? or are they two seperate groups not associated with each other? can a fraternity be a member of both? thanks in advance

[Firehouse]

"Firehouse and Madmax - it's now five years later, let's hear your thoughts.
You had some intelligent insights, the playing field has changed in 5 years, any different ideas?"
"Phi Delt and Kappa Sig seem to be doing very well several years after leaving the NIC."

Thank you for the kind words. Doesn't seem like five years (!) has passed...

First, yes, both Phi Delt and Kappa Sigma are propsering after their decision to leave the NIC. Phi Delt jumped early on the 'no-alcohol-in-the-house' initiative and no one else followed (maybe Sigma Nu). I get the feeling that Phi Delt undergrads feel themselves at a disadvantage because of it, but if it hasn't helped them it doesn't appear to have hurt them either. Phi Delt has a string of strong chapters at major schools.
Kappa Sigma is a little different. They are a fine, strong fraternity but they have launched in a new direction, one pioneered by TKE and Sig Ep: very rapid and prolific expansion. Kappa Sigma has around thirty colonies at any time. They are creating new chapters as fast as they can. Thier new marketing strategy is to lay claim to being the nation's largest fraternity. This number is not achieved by enlarging existing chapters; the numbers come from all those new chapters. Sig Ep has claimed to be the "largest fraternity in America", basing that claim on their sheer number of undergraduates at any one time. They experienced rapid expansion, and it is my understanding that they award what you an I would consider initiated status almost immediately after a man is pledged. It's more complicated than that but it gives them the opportunity to dramatically increase the number of "initiated" undergraduates. Now, Kappa Sigma has overtaken that #1 standing.

As far as as the National Intefraternity Conference, I think the same issues are still in play. It costs a lot of money to be a member, and their programs appear to me to duplicate what our own nationals already do for the undergraduates. I would like to see an association dedicated to opposing draconian, arbitrary regulations and bullying by administrators. Back in the day, no one got actually kicked off campus unless they did something really horrendous. Today, it seems that any violation brings the death penalty, without regard to the financial impact or effect on alumni. Another thing the NIC should do it lobby IFCs to permit the immediate reinstatement of suspended fraternities as soon as they've served their time. At my school (FSU) SAE got kicked off for five years in 2001. They have applied to IFC twice for reinstatement and been voted down both times. Finally SAE said the hell with it and established a colony anyway.
One of the problems with NIC - so I'm told - is that their staff and volunteers are of the same mindset and outlook and general profile as the typical "greek life professional." They see the world through the same eyes, and that view is markedly different from the views held by staff and officers of most major national fraternities.

[kapsigcub]

Originally Posted by Firehouse

Kappa Sigma has around thirty colonies at any time. They are creating new chapters as fast as they can. Thier new marketing strategy is to lay claim to being the nation's largest fraternity. This number is not achieved by enlarging existing chapters; the numbers come from all those new chapters.

Could you please share your sources? I'm unable to duplicate your findings. Thanks in advance.

[Corsulian]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Did any other chapters end up joining FLA? I looked and saw that Phi Delt was not a member of the group. I'm assuming they stayed independant.

Phi Sigma Kappa also withdrew from the NIC and helped form the FLA. We rejoined the NIC a couple years ago. I was at the annual congressional luncheon in 2006 and spoke to a some of our national "guests" (since they weren't really delegates anymore) and they noted that the NIC was lobbying for tax breaks in Greek Housing and that it was probably worth rejoining. One year later and Phi Sigma Kappa formed its very new "Properties" arm.

I was an undergraduate during our hiatus and we also had Kappa Sigma on campus. The whole thing had almost no perceivable impact on our two chapters except when a vote for expansion came up in the IFC. Normally chapters are obligated to say "yes" unless there's substantial reason not to and the pressure for that comes from the NIC. We felt no such pressure.

[Firehouse]

"Could you please share your sources? I'm unable to duplicate your findings. Thanks in advance."

Sure. I am very familiar with the history of Kappa Sigma' journey through the 20th Century. I've read Wilson Heller's old newsletters and I've studied his national ranking surveys. I've read the Caduceus from time to time. Heller was a fan of Kappa Sig and when they took a downturn in the 1970s he correctly predicted that they'd right the ship, due to excellent history and new leadership.
Before I wrote my response about Phi Delt and Kappa Sigma I simply Googled Kappa Sigma, went to their national website and counted the colonies. I knew they were in a huge period of expansion, and now I see on the national website that they're laying claim to be the nation's largest fraternity, a title often touted by Sig Ep and for the same reason: they choose to count the current number of undergraduates.
Here is an excerpt from a news release on the national website: "The Fraternity posted over a three percent increase from the Fall of 2006 and established fifteen new colonies, tying an expansion record set in the Fall of 2005 when Kappa Sigma also established fifteen colonies. Kappa Sigma has averaged eleven colonies per semester over the past four years, and expects to establish over twenty new colonies next spring."

You can be "the largest fraternity in the nation" because you have the most chapters (TKE), or because you have the most alumni (SAE?), or because you have the largest average chapter size (Pike) or simply because you're Sigma Chi (I'm being sarcastic but you have to tip your hat to Sigma Chi).
Please don't take offense; none is intended. What Kappa Sigma is doing isn't a bad thing; it simply is what it is. Regardless of how they choose to go about it, Kappa Sigma is not going to be hurt by being aggressive. Sig Ep and TKE made pretty good livings off of it.
Other, old line fraternities like Beta and Phi Delt and Fiji chose to be extremely selective in their expansions, but it has not hurt them because they focus all their resources on only a few at a time.
Kappa Sigma is doing well. Be proud.

[Corsulian]

Originally Posted by Firehouse

One of the problems with NIC - so I'm told - is that their staff and volunteers are of the same mindset and outlook and general profile as the typical "greek life professional."

As an aspiring Greek Life professional (years from now, after I've made millions of dollars playing the ponies), I'd like to know what that outlook is. Perhaps because it is 2AM, I couldn't figure exactly what you were going for there.