Penn State Teke's in trouble

kddani · #1 10-16-2002, 12:37 PM

Penn State frat charged after woman fell 8 floors

Wednesday, October 16, 2002

Associated Press

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. -- A Penn State University fraternity was charged with illegally providing alcohol to a 20-year-old female student who fell from her eighth-floor apartment window.

Tau Kappa Epsilon fraternity was charged yesterday with selling or furnishing alcohol to minors, State College police detective Joe Grego said today.

Natalie Paglione, of Ambler in suburban Philadelphia, was drinking at a TKE party at an apartment near campus on Sept. 8 before she returned to her apartment, authorities said. It was unclear how she managed to fall out of her bedroom window, but police said Paglione had a blood-alcohol level of 0.135 percent, well above the legal limit for driving.

Paglione sustained injuries to her back, arms and legs and had to have a kidney removed at the Milton S. Hershey Medical Center in Hershey. She has since been discharged and was recovering at her home.

TKE president Brad Andrew Nelson, who Grego said was involved in providing the alcohol, did not immediately return a call seeking comment from The Associated Press.

If convicted, the fraternity would likely face a fine, authorities said.
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Thankfully it didn't occur in their house, or they would've been in a lot more trouble legally. The only thing they can really be held responsible for is furnishing alcohol to minors, which isn't too big of a fine. It sucks though

The1calledTKE · #2 10-16-2002, 12:43 PM

The indivduals might be charged and not the fraternty unless it was advertised as a TKE party. If it was an advertised TKE party, then forget the fines, TKE IHQ will crack down on them worse than that.

DeltAlum · #3 10-16-2002, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zntke711
The indivduals might be charged and not the fraternty unless it was advertised as a TKE party. If it was an advertised TKE party then forget the fines TKE IHQ will crack down on them worse than that.

What's been happening more and more is that both the chapter and individuals are charged. Sometimes the university and national organization are included as well.

It sounds like a minor miracle that the woman wasn't killed -- eight floors is a long way down.

Eupolis · #4 10-16-2002, 01:09 PM

The serious legal liability here isn't going to be the criminal law. That may just turn out to be fines, as the article said. The real pain is going to come when the civil lawsuits come. These guys are almost certainly going to get sued, by the student, or her health insurance provider, or both.

texas*princess · #5 10-16-2002, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum

It sounds like a minor miracle that the woman wasn't killed -- eight floors is a long way down.

that's what i was thinking

Kevin · #6 10-16-2002, 01:22 PM

It's interesting how it was called a TKE Party when it was at someone's apartment...

I don't think most chapters would do an advertised party and then have it at someone's apartment.. But that's just my experience talking.

I'd be willing to bet that it wasn't actually a TKE sponsored party.. just a party where a lot of TKE's were present.

The1calledTKE · #7 10-16-2002, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake

I'd be willing to bet that it wasn't actually a TKE sponsored party.. just a party where a lot of TKE's were present.

Probably, but alot of people concider that a GLO function anyway. I know VSU states is any more than five members of an peticular GLO are at a function where there is drinking its a party of that org.

axotiger · #8 10-16-2002, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake
It's interesting how it was called a TKE Party when it was at someone's apartment...

I don't think most chapters would do an advertised party and then have it at someone's apartment.. But that's just my experience talking.

I'd be willing to bet that it wasn't actually a TKE sponsored party.. just a party where a lot of TKE's were present.

I would have agreed with this statement, but then what zntke711 said reminded me of somthing that our president last year about how if 'x' amount of us girls were there, then it would be considered our function. Which is kind of annoying (Also confused me) What if like my roommates and our neighbors (who are also AXO) happened to go to a party at our friends apt who's a GDI, I mean there are 8 of us there... is that our function? I guess lines are shady...

The1calledTKE · #9 10-16-2002, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by axotiger

What if like my roommates and our neighbors (who are also AXO) happened to go to a party at our friends apt who's a GDI, I mean there are 8 of us there... is that our function? I guess lines are shady...

I would be your function in writing. I am sure after investigation they would not call it your function unless most of your chapter was there.

DeltAlum · #10 10-16-2002, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eupolis
The serious legal liability here isn't going to be the criminal law. That may just turn out to be fines, as the article said. The real pain is going to come when the civil lawsuits come. These guys are almost certainly going to get sued, by the student, or her health insurance provider, or both.

Thanks,

"Charged" was a bad choice of words on my part. Lawsuits is what I really had in mind.

DGWannabe · #11 10-16-2002, 05:02 PM

Someone dieing is always a tragedy, I personally believe that, regardless of the law, anyone 20 years old is old enough to handle themselves when they drink and if they can't-that's their p[roblem not someone elses. If you are an adult-and at 20 you are-you shouldn't drink if you aren't going to be responsible about it. I am so sick and tired of our society where everyone blames everyone else for their own mistakes (or the mistakes of their children). No one pushed her out of that window (I am assuming). Now if she got drunk and the guys ran a train on her-they desearve to be sued and jailed b/c no one would consent to that. But nobody shoved her out that window. Those parents should've had a little talk with her before they sent out into the big world. If she had driven srunk and killed a family of five-that -IMO would be soley her responsibility as well. Now that I've offended everyone east and west of the mississippi...... It is terrible.

sugar and spice · #12 10-16-2002, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DGWannabe
Someone dieing is always a tragedy, I personally believe that, regardless of the law, anyone 20 years old is old enough to handle themselves when they drink and if they can't-that's their p[roblem not someone elses. If you are an adult-and at 20 you are-you shouldn't drink if you aren't going to be responsible about it. I am so sick and tired of our society where everyone blames everyone else for their own mistakes (or the mistakes of their children). No one pushed her out of that window (I am assuming). Now if she got drunk and the guys ran a train on her-they desearve to be sued and jailed b/c no one would consent to that. But nobody shoved her out that window. Those parents should've had a little talk with her before they sent out into the big world. If she had driven srunk and killed a family of five-that -IMO would be soley her responsibility as well. Now that I've offended everyone east and west of the mississippi...... It is terrible.

I agree . . . I think it's ridiculous that this is going to be blamed on TKE. If she hadn't gotten the alcohol at their party she would have gotten it somewhere else.

DeltAlum · #13 10-16-2002, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sugar and spice

I agree . . . I think it's ridiculous that this is going to be blamed on TKE. If she hadn't gotten the alcohol at their party she would have gotten it somewhere else.

And then everyone would be saying "somewhere else" is to blame. Here's the bottom line. The TEKEs did apparantely give her the booze. Whether she fell or was pushed, her judgement probably was impaired. Giving her alcohol is against the law -- whether the law is fair or not.

We absolutely MUST stop putting our organizations in this position. Besides the fact that people are badly hurt or even killed, the liability is huge.

One of the single biggest challenges to the survival of the Greek System is the rapidly rising cost of liability coverage. No organization can live without it, and situations like this one cause the skyrocketing premiums.

Eupolis · #14 10-16-2002, 06:08 PM

As a general matter....

It's pretty well established in law that when someone can cut off the flow of alcohol to a seriously drunk person, they have the duty to do just that.

In this case, it sounds like the alcohol that the students provided at least contributed to the injury that the woman suffered. Sure, some other things were factors -- the woman's emotional state might have been a factor, and the construction of the window she fell from might have been a factor. If she ended up outside that window through her own intentional act, then it sounds like the alcohol was less of a factor, and probably not enough to blame the person who served it at all. But if, drunk and disoriented, she was half-standing on her bed trying to shut the window, slipped, and blew the screen out of a properly-installed window, then it looks like the alcohol was a bigger cause of what happened. Enough to blame the person who served it? That's a harder question. After all, she drank the alcohol, and we don't let people use drunkenness as an excuse for their own negligence. But at some point that duty to cut her off might have kicked in, and the person pouring would share at least some of the blame.

As far as negligently serving her more and more alcohol is concerned, her age doesn't matter. A person can be held negligent for giving car keys to someone the person should know is too intoxicated to drive even if both people are 45.

How much does the bartender/alcohol provider have to know? How drunk does she have to look? That's a question each court struggles with, and I don't know the general standard.

The fundamental point is this: If you are in a position to prevent great harm from happening, and if you ought to be able to foresee that some kind of harm is possible, you'd better do what you can to make sure that what you're doing doesn't help to bring any kind of harm about. (Some states say that the precise harm that occurs has to be foreseeable for the negligent person to be liable, while others only say that some kind of harm had to be foreseeable. In any event, juries decide foreseeability in hindsight, so you'd better cover your behind either way.)

Whether the fraternity as a corporation should be responsible is another question that I'm not even going to try to address here. Suffice it to say that if they get sued, the legal fees they'll have to pay to have the proper work done to get them out of the case will run them several thousand dollars, and that's if they win. The person who pours alcohol for someone who gets severely intoxicated there and hurts himself or herself will pay at least as much to defend the case -- again, if he wins.

sugar and spice · #15 10-16-2002, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum

And then everyone would be saying "somewhere else" is to blame. Here's the bottom line. The TEKEs did apparantely give her the booze. Whether she fell or was pushed, her judgement probably was impaired. Giving her alcohol is against the law -- whether the law is fair or not.

We absolutely MUST stop putting our organizations in this position. Besides the fact that people are badly hurt or even killed, the liability is huge.

One of the single biggest challenges to the survival of the Greek System is the rapidly rising cost of liability coverage. No organization can live without it, and situations like this one cause the skyrocketing premiums.

Oh, I definitely agree with all of those points, and I think that Greeks need to realize that situations like these can be avoided, and that we need to start doing our best to avoid them. I just think it's wrong that Teke is probably going to get sued for this. If the girl had just been drinking in her apartment with her friends and this had happened, would she have sued the person who brought the alcohol over? Probably not. Even if she had been at a non-Greek house party, gotten drunk, and fell off her balcony, I'm not sure that there would be the same threat of a lawsuit pending as there is here.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree with you that we all need to do our part to eliminate situations like this. The Tekes shouldn't have been serving this girl alcohol; it was an irresponsible move on their part, and the consequences of the act were terrible. But I also think that placing the majority of the blame on Teke is unfair, since they weren't even present when she fell, they didn't force her to drink, etc. -- all they did was supply the alcohol which, as I pointed out earlier, could have probably easily been obtained from a number of different sources. People need to start taking individual responsibility. I don't doubt that part of the blame falls on Teke's shoulders here . . . but certainly not all of it, and that is what the lawsuit is going to make it out to look like.