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  #1  
Old 02-10-2020, 07:18 PM
Tdlegacy Tdlegacy is offline
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Question Dirty Rushing

My daughter experienced dirty rushing. As a result she did not receive a bid. She is extremely hurt and feels betrayed. I am not sure how to handle the situation. Any advice would be appreciated.
  #2  
Old 02-10-2020, 07:20 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Can you define "dirty rushing"?
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:39 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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And how did that action- whatever it was- cause her not to get a bid?
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Old 02-10-2020, 09:31 PM
Tdlegacy Tdlegacy is offline
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She attended a house all through rush. All the girls told her she was in. On pref night she asked the girls in that sorority if she should intentionally only write down one choice. Two members told her separately to pref their house first but rank 2 sororities and that she had nothing to worry about should would be in their sorority inferring only ranking one would be a problem. She did that and on bid day she did not receive a bid from that house. All week she was honest and vulnerable and they were intentionally or unintentionally lying. The sorority she received a bid from had made a derogatory remark to her so she politely declined their bid. We spoke to panhel today and they said the sorority that dirty rushed her needs to fix the problem and we should call their nationals. If we call their nationals it could create a blackballing issue for her if she decides to rush again. We asked if she could do informal but panhel said no. I truly do not believe that this sorority was malicious in their intent but that something happened with calculations BUT someone needs to fix or correct the mistake.
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Old 02-10-2020, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Tdlegacy View Post
She attended a house all through rush. All the girls told her she was in. On pref night she asked the girls in that sorority if she should intentionally only write down one choice. Two members told her separately to pref their house first but rank 2 sororities and that she had nothing to worry about should would be in their sorority inferring only ranking one would be a problem. She did that and on bid day she did not receive a bid from that house. All week she was honest and vulnerable and they were intentionally or unintentionally lying. The sorority she received a bid from had made a derogatory remark to her so she politely declined their bid. We spoke to panhel today and they said the sorority that dirty rushed her needs to fix the problem and we should call their nationals. If we call their nationals it could create a blackballing issue for her if she decides to rush again. We asked if she could do informal but panhel said no. I truly do not believe that this sorority was malicious in their intent but that something happened with calculations BUT someone needs to fix or correct the mistake.
Oh, well--then she did get a bid. But I can guarantee that the first sorority can not and will not offer her a bid. They have no doubt made quota.
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:04 PM
SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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No member can know in advance where a pnm will be on the bid list.Nothing happened with calculations other than she wasn't high enough on their bid list. Having listed sororities on her card, she cannot rush for one year. The time to report dirty rushing is during rush. At this point, there's nothing to be done. She refused a bid from the house that wanted her.
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  #7  
Old 02-10-2020, 10:22 PM
AZTheta AZTheta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdlegacy View Post
She attended a house all through rush. All the girls told her she was in. On pref night she asked the girls in that sorority if she should intentionally only write down one choice. Two members told her separately to pref their house first but rank 2 sororities and that she had nothing to worry about should would be in their sorority inferring only ranking one would be a problem. She did that and on bid day she did not receive a bid from that house. All week she was honest and vulnerable and they were intentionally or unintentionally lying. The sorority she received a bid from had made a derogatory remark to her so she politely declined their bid. We spoke to panhel today and they said the sorority that dirty rushed her needs to fix the problem and we should call their nationals. If we call their nationals it could create a blackballing issue for her if she decides to rush again. We asked if she could do informal but panhel said no. I truly do not believe that this sorority was malicious in their intent but that something happened with calculations BUT someone needs to fix or correct the mistake.
Re: bolded #1. We weren't there. Don't know what was said. Can't even speculate. I will say that recruitment is exhausting and these are young women running on very little sleep. And I mean both the pnms and the actives.

Re: bolded #2. If your daughter attended pref, she was on the sorority's bid list. However, apparently she wasn't high enough on the bid list before they reached quota. Nothing "happened with calculations". That's how it works. It's math. And there's no "someone" to "fix or correct the mistake" because there wasn't a mistake. It's how the numbers worked out for your daughter. If it is helpful for you to learn more about RFM (release figures methodology) let us know. Because it really is math.
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  #8  
Old 02-10-2020, 10:45 PM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZTheta View Post
Re: bolded #2. If your daughter attended pref, she was on the sorority's bid list. However, apparently she wasn't high enough on the bid list before they reached quota. Nothing "happened with calculations". That's how it works. It's math. And there's no "someone" to "fix or correct the mistake" because there wasn't a mistake. It's how the numbers worked out for your daughter. If it is helpful for you to learn more about RFM (release figures methodology) let us know. Because it really is math.
100% this. It doesn't sound like there were any miscalculations at all.

Now, perhaps there was some dirty rushing going on, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdlegacy View Post
On pref night she asked the girls in that sorority if she should intentionally only write down one choice. Two members told her separately to pref their house first but rank 2 sororities and that she had nothing to worry about should would be in their sorority inferring only ranking one would be a problem. She did that and on bid day she did not receive a bid from that house.
Your daughter asked if she should put only their sorority down? If that's the case, it sounds like she played a part in setting herself up for disappointment and perhaps made for an awkward situation for the active sisters. They might have even been pulling for her to join their sorority right up until she asked this question.

And it actually sounds like they gave her good advice in listing both sororities. Perhaps this was to assist your daughter in having a successful recruitment, or maybe it was to save themselves after she asked this question because it turned them off, or maybe it was for another reason entirely.

Were they in the wrong? Perhaps. Should your daughter have asked them that question? No - that was a discussion she should have had with her recruitment counselor.

We all learn, and sometimes it's the hard way. However, your daughter did receive a bid. She chose to decline it, and she has to live with her results and her decision. If she would still like to join a sorority, I would encourage her to try again the next time she's able and simply work on having good conversations with the active sisters, getting to know them, and letting the chips fall where they may without looking for the promise of a bid.

Good luck to her!
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Last edited by ASTalumna06; 02-10-2020 at 10:51 PM.
  #9  
Old 02-10-2020, 11:56 PM
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thetalady thetalady is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdlegacy View Post
My daughter experienced dirty rushing. As a result she did not receive a bid. She is extremely hurt and feels betrayed. I am not sure how to handle the situation. Any advice would be appreciated.
How to handle the situation? STEP BACK. This is not your rush. Your daughter should be a big girl at this point. Let her handle it. She walked away from a bid in her hand. That is certainly her prerogative. I can't imagine what they might have said to her that was so derogatory, but her choice.

Now she has to live with the consequences of her choice. She has a year to think about what to do next time rush rolls around. She will survive.
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Old 02-11-2020, 12:28 AM
Tdlegacy Tdlegacy is offline
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Maybe I did not explain the situation well enough. My intention was to ask for advice for anyone who has been in this situation. We are well aware of the rules of recruitment. She was told all week that she would be in the sorority. After the sorority girls on the last day told her who would be her big and what the date party would be and you are in for sure did she ask about if she should only write their name down because she was told if she did that a sorority would put you name at the bottom of the list. I do not think that is a bad question to ask if all sororities handle it differently. Her rho gams would not specifically know every sororities position on intentional bidding. Both panhel and an officer of the sorority have reached out to us to say the behavior of the sorority was wrong because they are trained in what they can and cannot say. As far as the bid she did not accept a girl in that chapter made a derogatory remark to her. I would not allow her to join a sorority that did that during recruitment. We have some of the dirty rushing in writing and witnesses to the derogatory remark. If anyone has been through this kind of situation and has any advice I would appreciate it. Panhel told her to contact the National chapter and the NPC. I am just not sure if that is the right thing to do. Please do not give parenting advice. I know she should live with disappointment and inferring that a 17 year old did something wrong is a judgement that is not needed right now. Please only comment if you have been through this type of situation and any advice you can provide in how to handle it.
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Old 02-11-2020, 12:58 AM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tdlegacy View Post
Maybe I did not explain the situation well enough. My intention was to ask for advice for anyone who has been in this situation. We are well aware of the rules of recruitment. She was told all week that she would be in the sorority. After the sorority girls on the last day told her who would be her big and what the date party would be and you are in for sure did she ask about if she should only write their name down because she was told if she did that a sorority would put you name at the bottom of the list. I do not think that is a bad question to ask if all sororities handle it differently. Her rho gams would not specifically know every sororities position on intentional bidding. Both panhel and an officer of the sorority have reached out to us to say the behavior of the sorority was wrong because they are trained in what they can and cannot say. As far as the bid she did not accept a girl in that chapter made a derogatory remark to her. I would not allow her to join a sorority that did that during recruitment. We have some of the dirty rushing in writing and witnesses to the derogatory remark. If anyone has been through this kind of situation and has any advice I would appreciate it. Panhel told her to contact the National chapter and the NPC. I am just not sure if that is the right thing to do. Please do not give parenting advice. I know she should live with disappointment and inferring that a 17 year old did something wrong is a judgement that is not needed right now. Please only comment if you have been through this type of situation and any advice you can provide in how to handle it.
You're asking sorority women about sorority recruitment. I think we all have some right to answer here. You asked a question, so we're providing responses. I don't think that any information you've been provided was in any way disparaging your daughter or judging your parenting skills.

Yes, your daughter asking that question of them might have turned them off or put them in a tight spot. Might have. None of us can say for sure. We weren't there. But again, that's what her recruitment counselor is for - to discuss her options. RFM applies to all of the sororities equally. And if she thought she was being dirty rushed, she should have brought it to someone's attention sooner and she shouldn't have asked that question of the chapter members that were dirty rushing her.

However, you ended your second post saying that you don't believe the sorority did anything malicious and you think there were miscalculations made. It was explained why miscalculations were not the issue.

Now you're saying there's evidence of and witnesses to the dirty rushing and you're asking if you should potentially send this up the chain of command.

Ultimately, it's your daughter's decision. But in my opinion, if she makes this a big deal now, she may kill any chance she has of joining a sorority. Since recruitment is over and she only brought this to someone's attention after she didn't get the bid she wanted, it may come back to bite her. Not pointing fingers here! But I'm sure that would be an argument made against her. But there's relatively few details for us to go on, so saying to do one thing over another is difficult without all of the facts in front of us. I'm not saying you should provide them all, but that's the position we're in here.
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Last edited by ASTalumna06; 02-11-2020 at 01:10 AM.
  #12  
Old 02-11-2020, 06:15 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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There is no such thing as “intentional bidding.” That’s a brand new term for this thread.

Also, stop pussyfooting around - what was the derogatory remark? Was it racial? About her appearance? What? Or did it have nothing to do with her and it was just something that accidentally popped out of a tired member’s mouth? It honestly sounds like you’re blowing this way out of proportion to have an excuse as to why she shouldn’t be bound to this sorority for a year. Maybe if she sat down and had an actual conversation with the girl that said it, the matter could be cleared up and she could get on with life and have fun in a sorority.
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Old 02-11-2020, 06:22 AM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 View Post


Ultimately, it's your daughter's decision. But in my opinion, if she makes this a big deal now, she may kill any chance she has of joining a sorority. Since recruitment is over and she only brought this to someone's attention after she didn't get the bid she wanted, it may come back to bite her. Not pointing fingers here! But I'm sure that would be an argument made against her. But there's relatively few details for us to go on, so saying to do one thing over another is difficult without all of the facts in front of us. I'm not saying you should provide them all, but that's the position we're in here.
THIS!!!Don't take this any further. It will only end up working against your daughter, whether she rushes in a year or not. It might not be too late to step away with grace and dignity. Whatever you say to NPC or the sorority's national office, it most likely will not hurt the chapter, so let it go.

And if it's not too late, I would encourage your daughter to get together with members of the sorority that offered her a bid. It is much easier to see the real, day to day person after rush is over. She may find that she has a lot in common with them and might want to give pledgeship there a try. She has right up until initiation to make her final decision, and if, at that time, she feels no connection, then she can resign before she is initiated and can rush again. After all, she is bound to that sorority now until rush rolls around again next year, so she might as well give it a try.
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Last edited by FSUZeta; 02-11-2020 at 06:28 AM.
  #14  
Old 02-11-2020, 08:24 AM
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Tdlegacy, every woman who has commented in this thread has been a sorority advisor on the local or regional level, plus many have also been involved with Panhellenic. Some of us are moms whose daughters' rushes may or may not have been so great. You would not believe the things we have seen or heard in recruitment.

Regardless,we can tell you that a bid will not appear now, no matter what kinds of proof you have. For now, her options are to remain independent until the next recruitment or to see if she can still pledge the sorority that gave her a bid. And I guarantee that if you get involved, she will not only never get a bid from the first sorority but that other sororities will talk and they won't want a member whose mom gets involved in the wrong way.
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Old 02-11-2020, 09:56 AM
AZTheta AZTheta is offline
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+1 to all the posts. You guys are spot on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdlegacy View Post
After the sorority girls on the last day told her who would be her big and what the date party would be and you are in for sure did she ask about if she should only write their name down because she was told if she did that a sorority would put you name at the bottom of the list. I do not think that is a bad question to ask if all sororities handle it differently.
Another clarification although you said you are well aware of the rules of recruitment: that is not how it works. Only a very few people know the order of the bid list (usually the Recruitment Chair, her Advisor, maybe one or two others). When the sororities make their bid lists, there's no way they know if a PNM SIP'ed! That's way past impossible. How would they even know? I can't imagine any scenario that wouldn't stretch the boundaries of credibility. The PNMs are submitting their signed MRABAs with their selections in a completely different physical place. No interactions with any sororities. It's all handled in a professional, organized, business manner, and I believe the NPC RFM specialist is present for this process, or is available (correct me if I'm wrong). The sororities submit their bid lists separately. THEN bid matching starts (computerized, all of this).

No way a sorority can go back and reorder their list after it has been submitted. Ask me how I know this. Yeah. Mistakes made, oops. Then, voila! Quota additions OR COB, depending on circumstances. Oh the stories some could tell.

A caveat:we have had discussions about recruitment practices. Lots of discussions in the past two years. I'm leaving it at that for now. You can read into this whatever you choose.
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