Meanwhile at UCLA, Sig Ep and Alpha Phi do Kanye & Kardashians

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Cultural norms??? Did you even look at what this party was or are you just jumping on the overzealous outrage bandwagon? I'm so very sorry that someone made light of the very serious cultural "event" which was Kanye's Golddiger song. Oh my God. All of the outrage.

I did look. They party was mocking a song by an AfAm artist.

Why don't y'all make fun of Luke Bryan, Kenny Chesney and Tammy Wynette. I mean, every C&W song is just ripe for mockery.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I think her reaction to this sums up the reaction of a lot of these UCLA students who really, honestly, don't understand what they are outraged about. It's kind of a "Bless your heart" moment.

Outraged at the continued display of immaturity by adults who view those that are different from them as a chance to ridicule.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I did look. They party was mocking a song by an AfAm artist.

And what's your point? So any music by any AfAm artist is somehow sacrosanct and is now too serious to be mocked in any way? Okay.. so that is a new rule. Kanye West is so super serious, must be taken seriously.. gotcha.

Why don't y'all make fun of Luke Bryan, Kenny Chesney and Tammy Wynette.

You don't get to use the word "y'all" in this context unless you agree I can say "you people."

I mean, every C&W song is just ripe for mockery.

Fabulous. In this sentence, you committed every bit as grave a sin as anyone in any of these UCLA chapters. Your organization should be suspended pending investigation.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Kevin

And what's your point? So any music by any AfAm artist is somehow sacrosanct and is now too serious to be mocked in any way? Okay.. so that is a new rule. Kanye West is so super serious, must be taken seriously.. gotcha.



You don't get to use the word "y'all" in this context unless you agree I can say "you people."



Fabulous. In this sentence, you committed every bit as grave a sin as anyone in any of these UCLA chapters. Your organization should be suspended pending investigation.

Are you offended, Kevin?

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Kevin

And what's your point? So any music by any AfAm artist is somehow sacrosanct and is now too serious to be mocked in any way? Okay.. so that is a new rule. Kanye West is so super serious, must be taken seriously.. gotcha.

I don't even think Kanye takes himself this seriously. And that's saying a lot.

Also--pop singers are way more visible than C&W singers so it's a weak comparison. they're simply not in the public eye as much.

Listen, there wasn't even blackface at this party. The professional outragers barked up the wrong tree and now a lot of innocent people are being punished. Ugh.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I don't even think Kanye takes himself this seriously. And that's saying a lot.

Also--pop singers are way more visible than C&W singers so it's a weak comparison. they're simply not in the public eye as much.

Listen, there wasn't even blackface at this party. The professional outragers barked up the wrong tree and now a lot of innocent people are being punished. Ugh.

I guess it is okay to act Black, as long as you are not actually Black.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I guess it is okay to act Black, as long as you are not actually Black.

Who acted black? The gold diggers? The women dressed up like Kim Kardashian? Please let me know because I am missing this.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Who acted black? The gold diggers? The women dressed up like Kim Kardashian? Please let me know because I am missing this.

You're right.

A more correct statement would be to say that I guess it is perfectly okay to appropriate Black cultural identifiers for the purpose of ridicule, as long as the one who is carrying out the appropriation is not Black himself / herself.

[DubaiSis]

If you can accept that a person is more than his or her race or ethnicity, then you must also accept that Kanye and Kim are douchy for reasons beyond their respective races and ethnicity. They are perfectly worthy of being made fun of and continuing to bang the drum about racism isn't going to help that. If he wanted to not diminish his stature as a black man in America, there is a damned lot he could do to be treated with respect. If you intentionally put yourself out in the social media universe then you deserve this type of ridicule. Cultures as a whole, private individuals who accidentally find themselves in the spotlight, that's a different story. That is not the case here.

[sigmadiva]

I agree, Kanye and Kim K., as individuals, are douchy to the max.


It is the case that historically NPC / NIC / IFC have a habit of these "dress-up" theme parties in the spirit of mocking those they are trying to imitate. Unfortunately, NPC / NIC / IFC groups often target minority groups. They are a victim of their own past behaviors.

[DubaiSis]

There is no person/couple in America right now who is as worthy of ridicule, except for the Republican presidential candidates. I would refrain from continuing to bang the drum about what "white people always do" (which is more or less what you are saying). These are late teenagers who at best made a minor mistake and at worst did absolutely nothing wrong. If we save the righteous indignation for when a person race or culture have actually been wronged then the indignation might actually have some teeth.
This is not an "I am not a costume" situation.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

I would refrain from continuing to bang the drum about what "white people always do" (which is more or less what you are saying). These are late teenagers who at best made a minor mistake and at worst did absolutely nothing wrong. If we save the righteous indignation for when a person race or culture have actually been wronged then the indignation might actually have some teeth.

Exactly. Also, there are NPHC fraternities in the NIC, and people of color in NPC/NIC fraternities. Generalizations do not help any of us.

Look, we all know of instances when fraternity or sorority members do dumb, insensitive, or downright offensive theme parties. THIS WAS NOT ONE OF THEM. Now we have misguided college students protesting over what boils down to nothing. It makes it possible that potentially legitimate concerns in the future are ignored. THEY ARE NOT DOING THEMSELVES ANY FAVORS.

Case in point:

"Said Hanan Worku, another UCLA student, on Facebook, “Yes that’s right, a frat decided it would be okay to have their members repeat a part of history that demoralized, mocked and dehumanized African Americans/ And celebrate while doing it. They showed up with their chains and braids with stuffed butts for God knows what reason. True Bruin values amiright????!!!!! Not to mention all of this happened last night which happened to be a part of Black Bruin Welcome Week! Coincidence right??????”

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...t-ucla/410638/

So, when did the Gold Rush dehumanize African-Americans?

[LAblondeGPhi]

So, as a white woman, I feel a little uncomfortable in these situations taking the position I'm about to take. I hate seeing discussions of race break down into white people taking one side and blacks taking the other, and it seems to happen more often than not.

But - I do want to recognize the limitations of my own perspective, so I'm coming at this with genuine curiosity and open-mindedness. Here we go:

I think there is a genuine difference between making fun of an individual and making fun of a group of people based on stereotypes. I also think there's a difference between making fun of an individual for what they've actually done, versus making fun of someone by placing a stereotype on them. Based on what I've read here and elsewhere, it sounds like many of the costumes were making fun of an individual (or family), based on their own and actual behavior.

-The gold diggers: Removing the question of blackface, this costume looks to be a pun on the actual name of the Kanye West song. Halloween shops have been selling these kinds of "gold digger" costumers for years. If anything, I would often associate the stereotype of gold digger with a young pretty woman and an old white dude. I have a hard time seeing something offensive here. Did I miss that?

-The big butts: Okay, this one is a little more provocative, but it seems like it's a direct dig at the Kardashians much more than anything else. Those girls are obsessed with their backsides, and I swear, have perfected some kind of fitness regime to enhance them. Assuming that this is the case, is the action still culturally insensitive, or just mean-spirited toward the Kardashians?

-Chains, clothing, etc: Here's where I get iffy. The theme was based on Kanye West. If you go to an event dressed up in an outfit that he's actually worn, or something as similar as you can muster, is that offensive? At what point does the outfit cross the line?

I'm sure there were other costume variations at the party, so I'm sure that there were plenty more offensive than those listed here. But the thing is, I've seen plenty of "Tennis Pros/Golf Pros/CEOs and Something Hos" parties, or "White Trash whatever", or even "Famous Couples", and all of those are going to make fun of some group.

So is the real issue that the theme was "Kanye Western" and not "Taylor Swifty"?

[DTD Alum]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

You're right.

A more correct statement would be to say that I guess it is perfectly okay to appropriate Black cultural identifiers for the purpose of ridicule, as long as the one who is carrying out the appropriation is not Black himself / herself.

Appropriate Black cultural identifiers? By dressing up as gold miners? A profession that, by the way, was predominantly white? Or was it when they dressed up as a white woman?

95% of these parties, I agree with you. This one is patently absurd.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Are you offended, Kevin?

Not at all. Just pointing out that in this instance, you are being an asshat.