The fallacy of Sorority Recs?

[valkyrie]

Let's say you have a party that is one hour long. How much of that actual party time (when PNMs are in the house) is spent doing a skit or a song?

[carnation]

Maybe 20 minutes. It depends on the school. Most of the time, you're trying to get to know the PNMs.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by carnation
Maybe 20 minutes. It depends on the school. Most of the time, you're trying to get to know the PNMs.

EXACTLY!! See, that's what I've never understood. Why waste any time doing skits and songs? When I went through rush (which, granted, was quite a few years ago now), I thought the skits and songs were pointless -- they didn't tell me anything about whether I would get along with the sisters or whether I wanted to be a part of their group. Wouldn't the time be better spent if skits and songs were eliminated so that the members could have more time to spend with the PNMs? Wouldn't that help them feel less overwhelmed and able to concentrate on what's really important?

I'd be happy to hear it if someone can point out to me the value that skits have, but so far it's lost on me. I can see how it might be a good team-building exercise for sisters, but I don't see the value for PNMs at all.

[carnation]

The skits and songs are supposed to tell the PNMs about the sorority. It would be a huge time-waster if they didn't. They also put the PNMs at ease--they're usually amusing.

As a PNM, I certainly would've been a nervous wreck if I'd attended 7 straight hour-long parties and done nothing but talk with sisters. During the skit, the attention is off the PNM trying to make an impression; it allows her to sit back and enjoy some refreshments and a few laughs and learn more about the groups.

[WCUgirl]

I guess I can understand both sides of the coin here.

Prior to sorority life, when I was in high school, my best friend knew she was going to go to college and join a sorority. She knew she was going to join AAA because that's the one her mom was in and that's the one her neighbor was in. She went to college and, fall semester of her freshman year, went through rush and (surprise!) became an AAA. She went to a larger school in Florida and, to my knowledge, did not require any recs. However, she was a legacy, so I don't know if that made a difference. None of my other friends in sororities at Florida schools ever mentioned anything about having to have a rec, but then again, it might be standard so not something worth mentioning.

I on the other hand never had any desire to join a sorority. I went to a school in NC and freshman year I had several girls who lived on my hall in the dorm who were in sororities and I hated them. Then, during the summer b/w freshman and sophomore year, I befriended a girl who was in BBB sorority and I resolved that I wanted to join a sorority. I signed up to go through the recruitment process (so, yes, I was just a girl off the streets, so to speak), but noone mentioned that I should get a rec for any one of the groups on campus. So, I guess all the girls going through recruitment were girls off the streets. However, it was a smaller school, with only 60 girls to a chapter and about 125 rushees. So maybe that makes a difference as well. But our rush was definitely very competitive.

It just seems wrong to me that you're going to exclude someone because her mother/sister/someone she knows never joined a sorority. My mother did not join a sorority in college, and neither did my sister. I did not grow up with knowledge of sorority life. Had I gone to a school where I was cut from most of the groups merely because I did not have contact with someone who was a CCC at some other school 20 years ago, I probably would have dropped out of the whole process and been bitter about the whole thing for the rest of my life. Whenever my daughter(s) gets to college and expresses interest in joining, I probably would have discouraged it.

I can, however, understand how you would want to get a reference from someone saying "hey, I know this girl, she's great" or whatever. BUT I just lean towards the idea that a recommendation just solidifies the stereotype that sororities use shallow judgment when deciding to whom they extend bids. It seems to me that it is more of a negative thing than a positive one, and I would tend to agree with James that it is a barrier to entry.

But I really can't pass judgment because this whole concept is foreign to me.

So then, I have some more questions.

If I have to get a rec for AAA sorority, does the rec have to come from someone in AAA sorority? What if my neighbor was a BBB and sends in the rec to AAA? Would the girls of AAA accept a rec from another sorority woman?

Does the rec have to come from someone in a sorority at all? What if I am rushing AAA and I have a rec from my senator because I've known his family for years? Would it have more or less value if the senator was in a fraternity?

[Tippiechick]

For the record, I am from the South and have seen rush at big and small schools. I have first hand experience with the Southern Greek System.

When recs are used as a means of selecting PNMs at the big schools, it is the easiest way for the traditionally Greek families to perpetuate their legacies.

It is extremely unfair to those who live in communites that aren't Greek b/c it is a means for the elite to just stay elite and it prevents others from joining. And, those from non-Greek families already have a harder time getting in b/c of legacies. The rec requirement just adds to the difficulty.

You can't truly know someone through a few minutes in rush and the same is true for those with recs. Having a rec simply means that the PNM had found someone to write a rec. I can write a rec for someone but they have just as good a chance of being a good sister as someone without a rec. Yes, they can say that some member of the sorority has vouched for this person. But, does that really guarantee that the person will be a more involved/better sister? No.

Isn't the New Member period supposed to both educate the NM on the sorority AND to let the sorority make sure that the person is dedicated to sorority XYZ before they initiate the NM?

The rec system is a way of letting the big schools out of some work. They are able to screen out girls from the start. And, isn't it their DUTY to get to know every PNM? The rec system seems to make the playing field incredibly uneven for those who are unable to secure recs or are unaware that not having a rec will get them cut after first round?

I do not agree with the rec system.

[aopirose]

I agree with carnation. It also gives the non-skit sisters a chance to rest thier voices. The PNMs may only have 5 parties that day but the sororites may have 8.

Originally posted by carnation
The skits and songs are supposed to tell the PNMs about the sorority. It would be a huge time-waster if they didn't. They also put the PNMs at ease--they're usually amusing.

As a PNM, I certainly would've been a nervous wreck if I'd attended 7 straight hour-long parties and done nothing but talk with sisters. During the skit, the attention is off the PNM trying to make an impression; it allows her to sit back and enjoy some refreshments and a few laughs and learn more about the groups.

[33girl]

Originally posted by valkyrie
EXACTLY!! See, that's what I've never understood. Why waste any time doing skits and songs? When I went through rush (which, granted, was quite a few years ago now), I thought the skits and songs were pointless -- they didn't tell me anything about whether I would get along with the sisters or whether I wanted to be a part of their group. Wouldn't the time be better spent if skits and songs were eliminated so that the members could have more time to spend with the PNMs? Wouldn't that help them feel less overwhelmed and able to concentrate on what's really important?

I'd be happy to hear it if someone can point out to me the value that skits have, but so far it's lost on me. I can see how it might be a good team-building exercise for sisters, but I don't see the value for PNMs at all.

I'm not a "you have to have skits" person, but they DO break the tension - for the rushees and sisters. (Also if you have food, everyone can finish eating it during the skit.) However...

-they shouldn't take up the majority of the party, and leave no room to talk (10-15 minutes out of an hour long party is plenty)
-they shouldn't be full of "inside jokes" that the rushees don't understand
-they shouldn't be so perfect they look like Bob Fosse choreographed them. Everyone should know their parts but not to the point of it being rote. The one skit I remember like this made me feel very uncomfy, but considering the sorority I wasn't surprised.

[AUDeltaGam]

Originally posted by AXiD670
So then, I have some more questions.

If I have to get a rec for AAA sorority, does the rec have to come from someone in AAA sorority? What if my neighbor was a BBB and sends in the rec to AAA? Would the girls of AAA accept a rec from another sorority woman?

Does the rec have to come from someone in a sorority at all? What if I am rushing AAA and I have a rec from my senator because I've known his family for years? Would it have more or less value if the senator was in a fraternity?

Nope. A rec for AAA must come from an intiated member of AAA. Sometimes collegiates can write recs, and sometimes it has to be alums, but it must come from a member of that sorority.

[DGMarie]

Originally posted by Tippiechick


Isn't the New Member period supposed to both educate the NM on the sorority AND to let the sorority make sure that the person is dedicated to sorority XYZ before they initiate the NM?

It is my understanding that it is virtually impossible to not initiate someone whom you've extended a bid to once they've accepted the bid. The pledge period is not the time to weed down the pledge class.

I think the rec system is a good thing. There are spaces on the rec for the writer to tell about the girl's character, her extra curricular activities and why she would (or WOULD NOT) be a good sister. It gives the sisters a headstart on evaluating the playing field of this year's prospects.

[Tippiechick]

But, that makes for an unlevel playing field at these schools.

What about the girls who do not know anyone that can write a rec for them? They are often considered second rate when compared to someone who has a rec.

And, what about the recs that are written by people who barely know someone? That is NOT fair to those who are told that recruitment is a two-way street.

With the rec system at the schools who use it heavily, girls without recs have virtually no chance of being considered.

I have been at the big school where recs were used. Yes, we had posters all over our walls to learn everyone's name/hometown. But, we did that for EVERYONE and not just the girls with recs. We wanted to give everyone an equal chance.

I just find it incredibly hypocritical to tell the PNMs that it is a mutual selection process and that recs are "recommended" when in reality, if they don't have a rec at these schools, their "selections" are going to be severely limited.

It's no wonder that people often consider the Greek system to be full of snobs. The rec system makes it quite clear that you have to know someone on the inside to have a chance at a rec school.

[PenguinTrax]

I don't necessarily like recs, either, but they do serve a purpose.

That said - it really is the responsibility of the chapter to get recs. I know that our chapter did this - we had an entire group of alumnae who searched our recs for young women (including ME!) they wished to bid. Granted, it might be more difficult at a larger school, but the chapter's network of alumnae should make it a possibility.

Originally posted by Tippiechick
But, that makes for an unlevel playing field at these schools.

What about the girls who do not know anyone that can write a rec for them? They are often considered second rate when compared to someone who has a rec.

And, what about the recs that are written by people who barely know someone? That is NOT fair to those who are told that recruitment is a two-way street.

With the rec system at the schools who use it heavily, girls without recs have virtually no chance of being considered.

I have been at the big school where recs were used. Yes, we had posters all over our walls to learn everyone's name/hometown. But, we did that for EVERYONE and not just the girls with recs. We wanted to give everyone an equal chance.

I just find it incredibly hypocritical to tell the PNMs that it is a mutual selection process and that recs are "recommended" when in reality, if they don't have a rec at these schools, their "selections" are going to be severely limited.

It's no wonder that people often consider the Greek system to be full of snobs. The rec system makes it quite clear that you have to know someone on the inside to have a chance at a rec school.

[DGMarie]

What you are saying isn't necessarily true. If a GLO wants you, they will find someone to write a rec for you.

I disagree with your statement that a girl without a rec is considered second rate. A girl who shines during rush without a rec gets equal notice as a girl with a rec from her Aunt Matilda who is a wallflower.

I think you are reading way more into the rec thing than need be. I went to an SEC school in the deep south where recs were important but by no means the end all be all. Having a rec was no guarantee of anything.

As for having to know someone to get in, well, that certainly doesn't hurt.

[James]

Barbara and Dgmarie,

I understand what you are saying, but thats one of the points I am challenging in my original post.

It is the responsibility of the chapter to get recs for everyone . . in theory . . . and on paper. And I am sure if they know in advance about someone that walks on water they will do so . ..

But we are talking about the girl that is unknown until the first day of Formal Recruitment and we are talking about schools that will automatically cut No-Rec-Girls after the first round.

What practical recourse is there for them? I am not attacking but I have been told that generally the chapter is not going to find Rec for girls that they just cut after the first round . . . and they cut based on recs.

[ISUKappa]

I never understood it was up to the PNM to get the rec, I always thought it was up to the Alumnae and/or chapter and that these were usually unsolicited (but I am basing this on my experience as a chapter member/reference chair a Midwestern school and an adviser at another Midwestern school).

But, before we can even extend a PNM an invitation to Preference round, she must have a rec--if she does not have one from an alumnae or other collegiate chapter member, the chapter can vote to give her one.