Plegdes wearing letters???

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

(And I stand to be corrected, but I'm not familiar with any federal laws defining or criminalizing hazing; so far as I know, that's left to the states.)

I thought it was just the states, but wasn't 100% certain. I just looked it up and you're right -- no federal laws.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I would be interested in knowing when the question of letters became an issue. Certainly those NPC groups formed in the 19th and early 20th centuries could never have imagined their members wearing T SHIRTS as outerwear!!! The pledge pin and member's badge were really the only early insignia. And breathesgelatin, do you know when crests were adopted for NPCs? (paging oldu - I bet he'd know!)
It seems that lettered jerseys hit around - maybe the 50s? Late 40s?

Well, Pi Phi's was adopted in 1912, evidently:

http://www.pibetaphi.org/pibetaphi/aboutus.aspx?id=102

I don't have time to research all of the NPCs, but I would guess that for the earlier orgs the crests were created later (early 20th c.) and for the later orgs the crest was created at the foundation or soon after.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Even then, some orgs might have guidelines -- Fiji would not allow their letters to be used at all; and as described ad nauseum above, some orgs might allow their names to be spelled out in English but would not allow the Greek letters to be used.

Fiji at W&L put their letters on shirts...

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

You didn't say anything about agreeing. There are A LOT of things in life I don't agree with that I support and uphold (e.g. unconstitutional seat belt violations). And, I'm not making any suggestions that my sorority change its policies as they are in place to protect us.

I used the word 'support'. To me, that means agree, at least publicly, that your RM policies are sound. And yes, I saw your last sentence - but it's posts like these that allow collegians to say, "well...OFFICIALLY it's against the rules, but National Staff Member X said they're stupid. I agree!"

That's how you are coming across.

[Senusret I]

No, not really.

[SWTXBelle]

Yes, really.

eta - and an image of "Wink wink nudge nudge, say no more" just hit me! lol

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

I used the word 'support'. To me, that means agree, at least publicly, that your RM policies are sound. And yes, I saw your last sentence - but it's posts like these that allow collegians to say, "well...OFFICIALLY it's against the rules, but National Staff Member X said they're stupid. I agree!"

That's how you are coming across.

I'm not seeing it. Perhaps it's a difference of culture between our organizations. I'm speaking very generally and haven't mentioned the specific policies of my organization. Regardless, collegians are more than welcome to disagree with national mandates as long as they abide by them. My confidence in the intelligence/judgment of the membership of my organization would suffer if someone honestly came to me and said, "I saw you disagreed with such-and-such policy on Greek Chat so I figured you'd let me get away with such-and-such." I'd still love her, but I'd refer her to the National Standards Committee.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Fiji at W&L put their letters on shirts...

Really? Hmmm. They actually have a list of the seven places that their letters can be displayed. Per the Wiki:

Phi Gamma Delta limits the written dislay of its Greek letters.[32] In accordance with the fraternity's international bylaws, Fiji chapters and members only portray their letters in the following seven locations:[33]

• On a uniform diamond-shaped member badge

• On the Fraternity's official seal

• On the Fraternity's official flag

• On a chapter house marker

• On memorials to deceased brothers

• On a brother's certificate of membership

• On a brother's official college ring

The fraternity's letters are, thus, considered sacred and are never to be displayed on an object that can be easily destroyed. Whereas other fraternities often display their letters on clothing or other items, this tradition prevents Fijis from doing so. In place of the actual Greek letters, "Fiji," "Phi Gam," or the English spelling of "Phi Gamma Delta" are used in their place.

[breathesgelatin]

MysticCat, I know about the rules, although I don't think I'd ever seen them copied explicitly before. I don't know why FIJI at W&L did that, but they certainly did. Not on all their tshirts... just some.

[alum]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Well, Pi Phi's was adopted in 1912, evidently:

http://www.pibetaphi.org/pibetaphi/aboutus.aspx?id=102

I don't have time to research all of the NPCs, but I would guess that for the earlier orgs the crests were created later (early 20th c.) and for the later orgs the crest was created at the foundation or soon after.



Fiji at W&L put their letters on shirts...

The Kappa coat-of-arms was formally approved by a vote in 1912. It was a 7 year process.
http://www.kappakappagamma.org/Conte...eak_06_Jan.doc

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

MysticCat, I know about the rules, although I don't think I'd ever seen them copied explicitly before. I don't know why FIJI at W&L did that, but they certainly did. Not on all their tshirts... just some.

Oh, I certainly didn't think you had made it up or misread or anything. And I wasn't assuming you weren't familiar with those rules -- they'd just been mentioned enought times in the thread I thought maybe they should be laid out.

I was just surprised, since all the Fijis and Fiji chapters I've ever run across have been real sticklers about those rules.

[loveSK]

My heart sister, as long with all of the other heart sisters, lended all the new members a sweater with stitched letters on it until our big sisters got us our own..... on bid day.

I, being a new member, almost didnt want to accept the letters because i had no ideas what they meant, or if i was going to stick with the sorority.

I wanted to learn what they meant first and then be able to wear them.

My own opinion i guess.


But i know our school has some sort of rule against keeping your letters from your new members. Technically that doesn't mean you have to give it to them right away though.

I just hope that this fall recruitment we just give them a nice sigma kappa shirt instead of full on letters.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Ah, I think I completely misread your initial post. Sorry about that.

NPCs that allow letters, not crests, for NMs:

AST
ASA
G Phi B (I think I gathered that..?)
KD
Sigma Kappa

Actually, I think that now our NMs might be allowed to wear the crest as well. (I was just explaining why we allowed letters and why a crest might not be allowed - not necessarily that this is our current, official policy) But seeing, as I said, that most crest sweatshirts are really expensive now (and the ones I saw from our official vendor were pretty butt ugly) it's kind of a moot point.

[ENsweetheartPM]

for us we wear print shirts with letters on them and carry bags and wear new member pins. we cant wear stitched letters till initiation. our bigs give us our shirts the nights we're initiated. i know that one of the fraternities on campus their pledges aren't even allowed to touch letters till their initiated.

[LucyKKG]

My chapter has never had a rule against this. (I mean, in our 2 years of existence.) It didn't seem to be a problem when we were a colony either.

[nisse07]

i really dont think that pledges or new members should be allowed to wear any form of greek letters of the sorority or fraternity they are wanting to join and become a part of. i think its better if they earn their letters until they become initiated...its also a better feeling knowing that you did what u had to do to earn your letters and you can wear them proud knowing that you earned ur letters and you truly love them