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  #1  
Old 08-07-2001, 08:58 PM
Hootie Hootie is offline
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Question Too many fines...

I remember a few years ago, when our national consultant came to visit, some of us asked her what was finable and what wasn't. As she explained it, only Recruitment and Initiation are finable events. Therefore, if a person misses them, the chapter CAN fine them.
So then why is it my chapter's executive board is making OTHER events finable...and can they get away with this.
I'm sick of hearing that You will be fined 25.00 if you don't go to this or that, when I know that isn't right.
Also, if this fining thing is excessive, do you think I should confront the executive board about it...even if they're my good friends.
Hootie
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  #2  
Old 08-07-2001, 09:58 PM
LeslieEMU LeslieEMU is offline
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Hootie, I agree that fining is out of control in my chapter too, but we have a few sisters that don't come to events but then show up at the bar later that night. I wish everyone didn't have to get fined because of a few, but that unfortunately happens. We get fined for Recruitments, Chapter Meetings, Philanthropies, Initiation, Pinnings, and things like IRD.

If you're late it's like $12.50 and if you don't show it's $25. If it's a more important event like Formal Recruitment, Initiation, or IRD, it's more like $50.

[This message has been edited by LeslieEMU (edited August 08, 2001).]
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  #3  
Old 08-07-2001, 10:04 PM
AlphaSigLana AlphaSigLana is offline
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I know that my house only fines if you miss work week and recruitment. If you miss other events- philanthropy - you are brought up to standards- there is a point system. If you don't attend so many things you can get kicked out- unless you already have talked to standards regarding a job or such. I think it is ridiculous to get fined for missing stuff like socials. Hootie contact someone. I'm sure others feel the same way, but are afraid to speak up thinking they could be ostracized- not that your house would do that, but you know how it is when you are afraid of what others will think.


[This message has been edited by AlphaSigLana (edited August 07, 2001).]
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  #4  
Old 08-07-2001, 10:08 PM
GmuTeke GmuTeke is offline
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Is it in your bylaws? Our national bylaws dont mention fining, but our chapter ones do, so we fine. However, we fine in 5-10 dollar chunks.

If it's not in your bylaws, then you might have a good reason to confront the board on it. However if it is in there, then I think you might be stuck with it providing there's no national rule prohibiting fines. Of course, you can always worm your way onto the bylaws committee and change things that way.

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  #5  
Old 08-07-2001, 10:53 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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$25 for a fine?? Man, we had to pull teeth to get $5 out of someone. I'm so old. At any rate, if this is something that your HQ told you isn't allowed you should definitely speak up about it.

I know what Leslie means though, I think every group has the weenies who say "I'm deathly ill" and then seem to make a miraculous recovery at the bar. I personally never understood people who pay dues and then only go to meetings.

Going with Lana's mention of a point system - that is a more positive way to do it rather than fining people for everything. If you don't achieve a certain % of points you cannot attend the date party, formal, whatever. I know we also used to say that if you knew you could not show up to an event (primarily mixers), either vote no or abstain. We all want to socialize and meet the fraternities but if half the chapter is going to be wet blankets cause they're worried about tests and such, or blow off the mixer, it is better to not even go and have the fraternity have a bad time.

OT to GMUTeke - I know Reagan is the president, who's the king?
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  #6  
Old 08-07-2001, 11:46 PM
GmuTeke GmuTeke is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by 33girl:
$OT to GMUTeke - I know Reagan is the president, who's the king?
Elvis -though he is an honorary. I picked up that slogan at our international conclave and i liked it.



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  #7  
Old 08-09-2001, 04:24 AM
Thrillhouse Thrillhouse is offline
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I never did believe in fines unless it was a major event ie: rush, initiation, or major fundraiser. You shouldn't have to make someone go to an event, they should already want to be there unless they have a viable excuse. Homework was used most that I seen but even that can be avoided by doing your homework a different time. Proiorities come with being greek and people should no where their proiorities lie without having fines imposed on them.

That is all
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  #8  
Old 08-09-2001, 11:10 AM
shadokat shadokat is offline
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We used to have fines for everything...from missing rush events to meetings to service projects. Then our national devised a system in which you have to do so many items in a year. If you follow the program and complete your requirements, you're fine. If not, then you are brought up before standards board. Standards board usually will put some punishment on the person who isn't meeting their obligations, such as no mixers for a month or if it's really hideous, no formal. Social restrictions seem to work for a lot of chapters. Fining works only if people care enough to pay it...and when they don't, the fines will pile up to the hundreds of dollars and that person will leave owing you money.

If your national doesn't have a program like ours, you can implement a points system that works in the same way. This way, you reward those who are coming. Those who don't earn enough points in a semester go to standards and punishments handed down. I know punishments is the wrong word, but you get the jist. This has worked for some people as well.

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  #9  
Old 08-10-2001, 12:05 AM
PenguinTrax PenguinTrax is offline
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If your national and local bylaws state that only recruitment and initation are fineable, then that's all that should be.

Instead of working with negative reinforcement, work on positive reinforcement. Instead of fining someone for missing an important event, reward those that attend events (use a point system), and use negative points for those that miss it. At the end of the year, reward those people with the most activity points with a special gift or party. Make sure everyone starts out either at '0' or at a reasonable points number, say, 25.

You also need to reevaluate what events are so important that they might qualify for points.

Barbara
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  #10  
Old 08-10-2001, 04:33 PM
Laine4JC Laine4JC is offline
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I'm on our executive council for my org and I generally am the only one who believes in not fining for certain events. I believe people should definitely be fined for not attending Recruitment, Initiation, Ceremonies, and Philanthropy Events.
As for socials, we have 3 groups (Alpha, Gamma, and Delta) and two groups are required to go to each social (but everyone can go). If you are in the group that has to go, all you have to do is find someone in the other group to go for you. It's never a problem and we always have plenty of people there.
As for chapter, we have 5 excuses a semester (3 study, 2 personal) and aslong as you get them in before chapter, then you're fine. We've only had like 2 people who couldn't follow these rules- and they were generally seniors who were just burnt out. So we would talk to them about it...generally there's a reason WHY they don't attend functions...their feelings are hurt, they are in a bind financially and worked all the time and was too embarrassed to tell anyone, they feel like no one really cares if they are there are not,etc.
What it comes down to is that if someone doesn't attend an event, many orgs slap a fine on them...but they never find out what the reason behind their behavior is. Generally a 15 minute talk about the whole situation will solve a problem that many people choose to ignore by slapping a fine on them instead. I agree that communication will not help every situation, but definitely a good bit of them.

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  #11  
Old 08-15-2001, 12:40 AM
James James is offline
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There was an article not to long ago that wondered why all the leadership skills we supposedly learned in college vanished later.

Most management is bad, it relies on coercion: Do this or bad things will happen. Or keep doing this and you’ll get a pay raise and an office.

This is considered bad because it certainly doesn’t motivate, inspire, or make people feel warm and included. But it is the easiest way to approach a problem.

In college supposedly we are in volunteer organizations that don’t have access to such technique . . . except in Fraternities and Sororities. Here we have a lot of “or else’s”. Do this or else this will happen to you . . .

What GMUTEKE and Barbara says about by-laws is your best bet if you want change. If your Execs are fining from their own decision or chapter tradition that’s a simple vote. If it’s in your local by-laws you can draft a by-laws change, you don’t have to be on the committee to do it, anyone can propose a by-laws change. In either case, make sure you have a drummed up significant amounts of support before you present your option, even if the support is just “we hate fines”.

You will also need to propose something to replace fines such as the point system mentioned by AlphaSigLana and Shadokat, if you ask them maybe they will send you a copy? Maybe include a couple of those personal days Whitney (Laine4JC) mentioned so people can get points without attending certain events.

Here is an example from Kappa Sigma’s Idea page http://www.kappasigma.org/ideabank/points.html. I haven’t seen enough of these programs to know how good this one is so please post some feedback!

I really like what Whitney said about the three groups, with two being required to attend an event, and if you get someone from the uncommitted group to take your place you are excused.

May I suggest we stretch the idea? What if we created teams in the chapter (the amount depending on the size) for the major categories of operations: Say fundraising, socials, philanthropy (the smaller stuff) presence at other events etc. And lets say we vary the team rosters from category to category: That way more people work together on different teams. And then just did it the way Whitney said above: Certain teams have to go; In order to not to attend you just have to find a replacement.

Also what Whitney said at the end of her post about confronting the underlying cause was very insightful! As she said, most of the time a few minutes conversation and some kindness will go a long way to defuse a problem, especially if its done early.
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  #12  
Old 08-15-2001, 11:39 AM
shadokat shadokat is offline
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Our whole leadership and activities are set up in a team dynamic. I thought most groups were this way.

One thing about the socials, if you have to "require two groups" to go to the social, is it worth the money!! Socials should be fun, not something you HAVE to do, IMHO.

Heather
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  #13  
Old 08-16-2001, 12:08 AM
Laine4JC Laine4JC is offline
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by shadokat:

One thing about the socials, if you have to "require two groups" to go to the social, is it worth the money!! Socials should be fun, not something you HAVE to do, IMHO.


Last year we had about 100 sisters and many had to work or were very involved on campus. Sometimes we had last minute projects or tests. We "require" two groups to go to make sure that we have enough sisters there. No one even thinks about it being a requirement, we just use it as a precaution. Does this make sense? But we also use these groups to bring things, like food, drinks, etc. It's really not as bad as it sounds- like I said, we never have a problem with not having enough people there. But I understand what you're saying and where you're coming from. This works for our chapter, but it may not work for others.

I also wanted to add that no one is required to go to alcoholic socials.

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Whitney

[This message has been edited by Laine4JC (edited August 15, 2001).]
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  #14  
Old 08-16-2001, 10:30 AM
shadokat shadokat is offline
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Laine, I understand what you're saying now. I know that some chapters I've worked with have trouble actually having girls who WANT to go to socials. That was my point, if girls make a fuss because they HAVE to go to a social, which I personally think is sily.


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  #15  
Old 08-16-2001, 03:46 PM
N2 N2 is offline
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Fines only work if they are enforced. My Chapter went overboard with fines once and it diminishes there value. We now have fines only for major events and they are harsh. You must then enforce them to the letter. It works best if your "alumni council" or whatever you call it does the enforcement. A brother that is late paying a fine is suspended for the semester the second that a fine is late, no recourse. It must be an absolute. If you have the discipline, it will work with amazing results.
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