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  #166  
Old 06-29-2007, 06:57 PM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
Our letters and our pledge pin have an open meaning, which is our motto.

Our crest and our member badge have hidden meaning that are only revealed at initiation.

Ergo the letters/crest distinction.

I don't know what the rest of y'all do.
Which raises a very fundamental point that should probably be in any list of what has been learned on GC: There are very, very few statements that can be made that apply to all GLOs. Everybody does things differently -- in some orgs, the meaning of the letters is open, in others it is not. In some orgs, the colors or other symbols have secret meaning, in others they don't. In some orgs, non-initiated members can wear the letters, in others they can't. An on, and on, and on . . .

About the only statement that would apply to all fraternities and sororities is that they are all organizations with some kind of collegiate connection.

Quote:
Seriously, calling someone a pledge and/or not letting them wear certain items is not in any state hazing law - unless you stretch it like Rosie O'Donnell's underwear.

(That should kill this thread.)
I don't know about the thread, but it killed my appetite for the rest of the night.
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  #167  
Old 06-29-2007, 11:34 PM
Thetagirl218 Thetagirl218 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CutiePiPhi View Post
Only a few fraternities don't give their big/little sisters their letters. DU and Fiji are two that come to mind.
Letters maybe, but Kappa Alpha Theta came to being because our primary founder, Bettie Locke Hamliton refused to wear the Fiji badge (Her Brother's fraternity). Personally, I am glad she refused and started her own fraternity!
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  #168  
Old 06-30-2007, 12:21 PM
ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat View Post
Taking that very good question a step further, if it is hazing to forbid a pledge/new member/affiliate from wearing letters or the coat-of-arms, isn't it also hazing to forbid them from wearing the badge? Doesn't having a separate pledge/new member pin tell the new members that they're different and can't do certain things unless they're initiated?

Just asking.
Good point. Personally, I think sometimes (and it's usually sororities guilty of this, at least as far as I've seen in my limited experience) the new members are given too much on a silver platter from the get go. They spend their entire new member period essentially being waited on hand and foot, wearing the letters even though they don't know the importance of them yet, and being allowed to do pretty much anything that actives can do with the exception of knowing ritual. It doesn't do much to prepare them for life as an initiated member, because if you're a good one, you are EARNING those letters...it's an investment of time, energy, soul, emotion, and of course money...it's NOT easy breezy like the new member period. I think that's why they tend to drop out right after it...at least for my chapter.

This is definitely not always the case, but I think sometimes knowing the importance of the letters helps members try to represent them a little better. If they aren't really important to you, why bother going to the trouble to represent them well?
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  #169  
Old 06-30-2007, 01:19 PM
fantASTic fantASTic is offline
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I'm not claiming to be an expert on hazing laws, and I can't answer all your questions. What I DO know, however, is that we in my chapter DO NOT call new members pledges, because WE, and the other GLO's on campus [excluding the NPHC] consider it hazing. This is a rule that each NPC/IFC group on our campus follows. During my new member period, I learned from my New Member Educator that to not allow someone to wear letters is HAZING. I don't think we would do that if it wasn't actually hazing, because I know most of the sisters get a little angry about it sometimes, and feel that the laws are too strict. We just happen to have decided to follow them.

What you do is up to you.
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  #170  
Old 06-30-2007, 04:34 PM
RutgersPIKE RutgersPIKE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl View Post
Good point. Personally, I think sometimes (and it's usually sororities guilty of this, at least as far as I've seen in my limited experience) the new members are given too much on a silver platter from the get go. They spend their entire new member period essentially being waited on hand and foot, wearing the letters even though they don't know the importance of them yet, and being allowed to do pretty much anything that actives can do with the exception of knowing ritual. It doesn't do much to prepare them for life as an initiated member, because if you're a good one, you are EARNING those letters...it's an investment of time, energy, soul, emotion, and of course money...it's NOT easy breezy like the new member period. I think that's why they tend to drop out right after it...at least for my chapter.

This is definitely not always the case, but I think sometimes knowing the importance of the letters helps members try to represent them a little better. If they aren't really important to you, why bother going to the trouble to represent them well?

My feelings exactly, I couldnt have said it better myself
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  #171  
Old 09-27-2007, 02:56 PM
angelnside angelnside is offline
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I know at my campus (undergrad) the sweethearts of fraternities received no respect from anyone on the campus. I know one organization did give their new cross over ladies over-sized shirt. It appear they took there own shirt and iron-on some letters for them. To be honest with you, in this century you can get embriodary done just about anywhere. At the end of the day, they are not greek and apart of the D9 and still gets NO RESPECT
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  #172  
Old 09-27-2007, 03:04 PM
faireststar faireststar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angelnside View Post
I know at my campus (undergrad) the sweethearts of fraternities received no respect from anyone on the campus. I know one organization did give their new cross over ladies over-sized shirt. It appear they took there own shirt and iron-on some letters for them. To be honest with you, in this century you can get embriodary done just about anywhere. At the end of the day, they are not greek and apart of the D9 and still gets NO RESPECT

why are you yelling??? and I'm curious to what college you attended that you have such poor usage and spelling skills. Sheesh.
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  #173  
Old 09-28-2007, 02:05 PM
AlphaFrog AlphaFrog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angelnside View Post
Why do you care what I say????
We don't. We're bored and feeding the troll. That's all. Don't flatter yourself.
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  #174  
Old 09-28-2007, 02:17 PM
SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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So there, Alpha Frog! She is nor flattered!
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  #175  
Old 10-01-2007, 04:09 AM
DeeZeeOE07 DeeZeeOE07 is offline
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On my campus, getting lavaliered (we call it getting Dropped) is a pretty big deal. Being lavaliered is the only way a girl can wear a fraternity's stitched letters. Sweethearts aren't allowed to unless they are dropped. I'm not sure if they can wear stuff that says "XYZ Sweetheart" or not because I've never seen a shirt like that on my campus. Two girls in my chapter were both dropped by members of the same fraternity and their boyfriends made them shirts and gave them to them along with a necklace. My big sis was dropped by a Lambda Chi and her shirt had the Lambda Chi Alpha block letters with Delta Zeta embroidered in English across them. On the back it said "Jackson's Girl" to clarify she was a girlfriend of a member. I know that my boyfriend doesn't plan on dropping me for a while but I can't wait for it to happen! Also, girls are allowed to wear screenprinted shirts as long as they are for events (Rush, Homecoming, Game Day, etc.) or if they have other GLO letters on them. I just ordered a Lambda Chi girl shirt that has their letters on the front with "Lambda Chi Cutie Pie" on the back with a piece of pie. I can't wait for them to get them in! I'm actually really glad the guys are pretty strict on wearing letters. Also, I've never heard of a Non-Greek girlfriend being dropped or allowed to wear letters. But nearly every guy I know who is greek who has a girlfiend is dating a fellow greek. I know that if I saw a random girl wearing my boyfriend's letters I would be pretty upset. Non-Greeks just don't seem to understand the meaning of it...
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  #176  
Old 10-01-2007, 09:10 AM
angelnside angelnside is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeZeeOE07 View Post
On my campus, getting lavaliered (we call it getting Dropped) is a pretty big deal. Being lavaliered is the only way a girl can wear a fraternity's stitched letters. Sweethearts aren't allowed to unless they are dropped. I'm not sure if they can wear stuff that says "XYZ Sweetheart" or not because I've never seen a shirt like that on my campus. Two girls in my chapter were both dropped by members of the same fraternity and their boyfriends made them shirts and gave them to them along with a necklace. My big sis was dropped by a Lambda Chi and her shirt had the Lambda Chi Alpha block letters with Delta Zeta embroidered in English across them. On the back it said "Jackson's Girl" to clarify she was a girlfriend of a member. I know that my boyfriend doesn't plan on dropping me for a while but I can't wait for it to happen! Also, girls are allowed to wear screenprinted shirts as long as they are for events (Rush, Homecoming, Game Day, etc.) or if they have other GLO letters on them. I just ordered a Lambda Chi girl shirt that has their letters on the front with "Lambda Chi Cutie Pie" on the back with a piece of pie. I can't wait for them to get them in! I'm actually really glad the guys are pretty strict on wearing letters. Also, I've never heard of a Non-Greek girlfriend being dropped or allowed to wear letters. But nearly every guy I know who is greek who has a girlfiend is dating a fellow greek. I know that if I saw a random girl wearing my boyfriend's letters I would be pretty upset. Non-Greeks just don't seem to understand the meaning of it...
wow very well stated
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  #177  
Old 10-03-2007, 10:35 AM
SthrnZeta SthrnZeta is offline
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Wow, I wish I had found this thread earlier! I totally agree that you should wait until initiation to wear your chapter's letters and I've seen many good arguments on this thread. I started a similar thread and got a lot of backlash from some women about whether it was or was not hazing but the NPC's definition is so vague that almost anything can be construed as hazing. Thanks again GCers for making some very intelligent arguments (especially Mystic and RutgersPike).

ETA: I also agree that the new member period is rather easy as far as things being handed to us, etc. But it's meant to be a celebratory time as well as a time for learning about your org. ZTA has something called Link Week the week prior to initiation and I think it's a really good idea - it's meant to solidify your lifetime commitment to ZTA and really makes you think hard about your decision to be initiated. I know there's been some discussion about lengthening the NM period and requiring grades to be in before you can be initiated - both good ideas IMO.
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Last edited by SthrnZeta; 10-03-2007 at 10:38 AM.
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