How many PMNs "know" before they even start recruitment?

[agzg]

Originally Posted by carnation

What has happened to many chapters: they have lost thousands of dollars as well as considerable alum support--such as women to serve on their advisory boards, help at recruitment, etc. I have never seen a chapter of any sorority laugh and blow off the alums with "What can they do?" because unfortunately, many of them have found out.

I, for one, think that's completely ridiculous.

[FSUZeta]

ridiculous it may be, but it happens.

when i was vp of membership for the alum. chapter when i lived in tulsa, i was personally calling sisters who had been active at one time, but had not been in a while. i got hold of one woman who ripped me a new one, because her daughter was dropped by her chapter, and pledged another sorority. the woman supported her daughter and helped out at that house during rush and for other events, but as long as i lived in tulsa, she never paid her alum. dues nor did she come to or support any zeta events.
my ears still burn when i think of that call.

[lyrelyre]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

Reading some of the threads about legacies and so on got me to wondering...

At the highly competitive schools, how many women "know" before recruitment that they will receive a bid to their legacy house?

I understand that no one truly knows until they have the bid in hand. And I'm not talking about dirty rushing or saying chapters are promising bids.

But given their connections and perhaps the prominence of their mother/sister/grandmother, what percentage of women do you think start recruitment with almost 100% certainty they will receive a bid to that chapter?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by carnation

Several years ago, it was easier to "know". I remember meeting one of the cheerleaders' girlfriends before rush started at our very competitive school. They had 1 particular chapter that was next to impossible to get into and he told me she'd be pledging that one. Even then, hardly anyone said anything like that, especially with that chapter! I asked him how he could know and he said, "She's (city name) 'royalty' and a double legacy through her mom and grandma, she'll get in." Happened just like he said.

Now at the same school, you can usually point someone out and say that she'll be in, say, 1 of maybe 4 certain groups (up to 8 with some other schools) but there are certain girls who will not, under any circumstances, fly under the radar and go unbid.

Before recruitment, no doubt that most girls can only say that they think they know.

Originally Posted by PhiMu_Lindz

I know of one woman who was a quadruple legacy to one of the organizations on campus, including her grandmother who was the past national president. She was cut. Nothing is certain, even at a school that is not super competitive.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

2. I'm not saying this is the case for the quadruple legacy, but overly confident legacies are annoying. Some legacies think they are damn near members and act very familiar with the GLO and the chapter. That's a good way to get axed. That's a step below wearing "future XYZ" and "my mother is an ABC" shirts around campus or wearing "ABC" socks around campus and saying "my mom bought these for me." Yes, folks, all of this does happen. The parents (or other reasons why the person's a legacy) are sometimes teaching these aspirants that this stuff is okay.

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

^^^This. Acting familiar is almost as annoying as saying you're a "future XYZ."

I don't think any legacy can really know for sure if they're going to get a bid.

I didn't go to a competitive school at all and yet I saw in-house legacies with sisters who were currently active get cut.

I think there are a fair number of PNMs at many (even quite competitive schools) who do "know" they will pledge a particular chapter or one of a few number of chapters. I think it has more to do with pedigree and being groomed for recruitment "since birth." As Carnation said, some girls will not fly under the radar. However, these girls would never say they know or act overly familiar in any way. Their mothers have taught them better. So, we would really never know that they knew ahead of time.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by lyrelyre

I think there are a fair number of PNMs at many (even quite competitive schools) who do "know" they will pledge a particular chapter or one of a few number of chapters. I think it has more to do with pedigree and being groomed for recruitment "since birth." As Carnation said, some girls will not fly under the radar. However, these girls would never say they know or act overly familiar in any way. Their mothers have taught them better. So, we would really never know that they knew ahead of time.

Yes!!!! Exactly!!!!!

[exlurker]

Originally Posted by lyrelyre

I think there are a fair number of PNMs at many (even quite competitive schools) who do "know" they will pledge a particular chapter or one of a few number of chapters. I think it has more to do with pedigree and being groomed for recruitment "since birth." As Carnation said, some girls will not fly under the radar. However, these girls would never say they know or act overly familiar in any way. Their mothers have taught them better. So, we would really never know that they knew ahead of time.

Gotta agree with carnation ^^^: absolutely right.

[KSUViolet06]

So really, at certain schools, the legacies that are "in danger" of being cut are the ones that are just kind of "middle of the road?"

Like, they aren't really stellar PNMs to begin with, mom isn't super involved, maybe they're from out of state, etc. and they just don't stand out from the ones who are great PNMs to begin with, have direct ties to the chapter, daughters of highly involved alumnae that everyone knows, etc.

Kind of off topic: not that getting cut is funny, but I find the funniest angry parents are the ones who are SO ANGRY that their legacy daughter was cut, but there was NO LEGACY form for her and NO MENTION of it on her app.

Well how were the girls supposed to know she was a legacy? They don't read minds.

Maybe this doesn't happen in the south, but I've seen this happen here.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by carnation

What has happened to many chapters: they have lost thousands of dollars as well as considerable alum support--such as women to serve on their advisory boards, help at recruitment, etc. I have never seen a chapter of any sorority laugh and blow off the alums with "What can they do?" because unfortunately, many of them have found out.

On the other hand, I personally feel that alums should try to stay out of the selection process as much as possible, and remember that it's the collegians' chapter-not the alums'. (And I say this as an alum...who has some strong opinions on advisers and alums who can't seem to remember that they are NOT in college any longer).

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

^^^This. Acting familiar is almost as annoying as saying you're a "future XYZ."

I don't think any legacy can really know for sure if they're going to get a bid.

I didn't go to a competitive school at all and yet I saw in-house legacies with sisters who were currently active get cut.

I tend to think that sister legacies are almost more complicated than mother-daughter legacies.

When sister is a current active (or even in some cases a VERY recent alumna) there is potential for the chapter's opinion of SISTER to affect the decisions they make about the legacy.

Ex: If sister is current President and other members seem to have drama with some decision that she's made lately, they might just feel like taking that out on Little Sister and getting her cut.

IMO there is no excuse whatsoever for cutting an in house legacy barring some serious defect (like...her GPA is absolutely dismal, she does copious amounts of drugs, she's single handedly spreading steeds to the entire football team, etc.). It's just unkind and not sisterly and makes both the sister and her incoming little sister feel horrible. I really don't give a damn if the incoming sister isn't as cute/fun/well dressed/outgoing/talented as her older sister. My chapter came close to making that mistake, but didn't, and it's a good thing because those members are now well loved and extremely active. (It should never have been a question in the first place as both had great resumes and are friendly, personable girls.) Another chapter on our campus dropped the younger sister of a current member who was a Recruitment Counselor that year. She did not run back to her chapter on Bid Day and couldn't stand to be around them for the rest of her time there, and the girl was blatantly cut because of her appearance. She pledged another chapter and as far as I know was happy there, but she should've been given a choice.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

IMO there is no excuse whatsoever for cutting an in house legacy barring some serious defect (like...her GPA is absolutely dismal, she does copious amounts of drugs, she's single handedly spreading steeds to the entire football team, etc.). It's just unkind and not sisterly and makes both the sister and her incoming little sister feel horrible. I really don't give a damn if the incoming sister isn't as cute/fun/well dressed/outgoing/talented as her older sister. My chapter came close to making that mistake, but didn't, and it's a good thing because those members are now well loved and extremely active. (It should never have been a question in the first place as both had great resumes and are friendly, personable girls.) Another chapter on our campus dropped the younger sister of a current member who was a Recruitment Counselor that year. She did not run back to her chapter on Bid Day and couldn't stand to be around them for the rest of her time there, and the girl was blatantly cut because of her appearance. She pledged another chapter and as far as I know was happy there, but she should've been given a choice.

My general opinion is that collegians may make whatever MS decisions they choose, but they NEED to understand that choosing to cut Little Sister is REALLY going to affect Big Sister's relationship with the chapter. As well as relationships with Big Sister's friends in the chapter. You cut her sister, and I doubt she's going to want to sing and chant with you guys on Bid Day, or do anything else.

I've never seen it end well. Both times I knew of it happening with an active sorority member, Big Sister quit. In the instances of recent alumnae younger sisters being cut, I've seen them cut all ties with an org over it.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

My general opinion is that collegians may make whatever MS decisions they choose, but they NEED to understand that choosing to cut Little Sister is REALLY going to affect Big Sister's relationship with the chapter. As well as relationships with Big Sister's friends in the chapter. You cut her sister, and I doubt she's going to want to sing and chant with you guys on Bid Day, or do anything else.

I've never seen it end well. Both times I knew of it happening with an active sorority member, Big Sister quit. In the instances of recent alumnae younger sisters being cut, I've seen them cut all ties with an org over it.

Fully agree. If I had a little sister that got cut from my chapter I wouldn't want anything to do with it, either. (Though I can't say I'd quit my organization...that's a chapter problem, not an organization problem.) The four years I was active I only know of one younger sister getting cut by her older sister's chapter, and it's the one I mentioned. Everyone else seems to have had the sense to know that is not a battle worth fighting unless they have a good enough reason that even the older sister can agree with them. (Which IMO is like I said...super slutbot, a 0.something GPA, a drug problem...that sort of thing).

[Nanners52674]

As disturbing and cruel as I find cutting an in house to legacy, it's just as awkward and horrible when an active sister badmouths her younger sister coming through recruitment.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

As disturbing and cruel as I find cutting an in house to legacy, it's just as awkward and horrible when an active sister badmouths her younger sister coming through recruitment.

In that case she probably doesn't want her sister in the house and she'd be dropped, right? I've never encountered that but it seems like that would make it easier on the house unless they really wanted the younger sister. Then if they wanted to cut, they could without worrying about the consequences.

[DrPhil]

I have a family member who is an (probably eternal) aspirant and I wouldn't want her to become a member (at least anytime soon) if I had any say so. So, I can see how this could be the case for more immediate legacies (parents or siblings are members).

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

As disturbing and cruel as I find cutting an in house to legacy, it's just as awkward and horrible when an active sister badmouths her younger sister coming through recruitment.

Or vice versa.

During my collegian years, we had 3 in-house sister legacies pledge. Everyone loved them. We had another possible one coming up, who we all liked fine, but she made it quite clear that she didn't want to be a part of us. I honestly can't remember who cut who. She pledges our rival and a year later all she can tell her bio sister is how miserable she is. Sorry baby girl, you had your chance.

We also found out (after the fact) that one of our pledges had a cousin in another group (coincidentally the same one as above) who pushed for them to cut her. As it turned out cousin was hella smarter than we were as we ended up terminating her for a myriad of bad behavior.

[MUSK81]

We once cut an in-house sister legacy who was, indeed, a super slutbot. The in-house sister wasn't too upset - she knew what her bio sis was. The legacy pledged another house but didn't last long there, or at our school.

[ellebud]

My older daughter (who didn't pledge but went to the same university as younger daughter) and I "knew" what choices the Reluctant One would have going in. One house surprised us, but I understood why it wasn't a fit from the beginning. And yes, prior to recruitment we (the elders) "knew" where she would pledge if the PNM was to stick it out.

If the birth order had been reversed and there was a younger sister: I know that if she wasn't offered a bid the Reluctant One would have gone on a tirade. And that, shall I say delicately, would be very unpleasant.