Defense of Alumni Initiation Sub Forum

[Tom Earp]

Evidently, My Post that has long been gone and stirred up (?) another Thread was not ment to mean what it was inteneded to do.

It was to point out the fact that AI is not a slip in the back door for People who did not make it into a GLO (ANY), for the fact as an Undergraduate.

Again, I reiterate that AI is somewhat new but expanding by the Different GLOs whether it Be a NIC or an NPC Group.

It seems to become more relivent as More People find it and ask about becoming a PNAI. Is it any easier, of course not. The length of Time that Many Of The AIs have spent along with time, effort and worry shows that. But I have Yet found any AI who is not much more Maybe appreciative than anyone I know and who bust Buns!

If We as GLOs are to expand, all avenues should be expanded.

I hope that there is more feelings and posotive aspects by GC Members who respect this Idea than trying to PooPoo it.

Granted, there are GLOs who do not profess AI, but it seems that more are looking at it.

Just look at some that said "We Dont" but Have.

I will never say that All should be there as there are reasoins that they are not.

We as Greeks are a selective Group as well We should be.

GreekChat never was or will be a catalist of gettting AIs interested. It is just and was another Avenue for People to find out about it.

[GeekyPenguin]

I dislike women who come on GC and say they are contacting more than one sorority. I'm sure this is a semi-unpopular opinion, but it bothers me immensely. AI is not like going to the shoe store and saying "I want a pair of black heels, let me pick out 26 or so and see what I like best." To me, AI should be saying "I love those Kate Spade kitten heels with the little bow."

You should want to join my sorority, not any old sorority that will take you.

[blueangel]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
I dislike women who come on GC and say they are contacting more than one sorority. I'm sure this is a semi-unpopular opinion, but it bothers me immensely. AI is not like going to the shoe store and saying "I want a pair of black heels, let me pick out 26 or so and see what I like best." To me, AI should be saying "I love those Kate Spade kitten heels with the little bow."

You should want to join my sorority, not any old sorority that will take you.

I never contacted any group other than ZTA, because that is where I received my bid in college all those years ago, and that's where I wanted to be.

However, I don't see anything wrong with women who were not in my situation feeling out more than one group. After all, I got to go to rush parties in school and see what the other groups were about. Why should AI be any different? During rush week, you meet women from a number of houses, and then it's mutual selection.... shouldn't that be the case with AI?

Can you imagine if, in college, you were told, "OK, we know you've never visited any of the houses, nor met any of the women, but we want to know which GLO you want to be in."

How can you know if Kate Spade shoes fit if you've never tried them on?

[AOIIsilver]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
I dislike women who come on GC and say they are contacting more than one sorority....You should want to join my sorority, not any old sorority that will take you.

GP,
I truly respect your opinion, and I pose this question in all seriousness and respect.
I have quite a different opinion on "sorority shopping." Indeed, I must say that I feel that my views are bound-up in my experiences of the AI process. Hence, I must ask...Every recruitment thread seems to be filled with statements such as, "Keep your options open" and "Give every group a chance"...Why should AI members be treated much differently? If one does not have a collegiate experience, how can she expect to know which group is a good match? I most certainly URGE conducting research before one acts; yet, I also feel that conducting quality research on a national organization does not always equate to understanding the culture and climate of local chapters. If one group does not work out, but another seems very promising, why not pursue that new group? If a PNAI wants a Greek-letter experience and is willing to put forth effort, time, and patience needed for the process, why must she give up the dream if one group is not a good fit for her?
GP, What are your throughts on "group shopping" (perhaps I should say "group-shopping-lite") when viewed through this lense?

On a general note with absolutely no one person in mind....
I really enjoy reading GC and, especially, the AI sub-forum. I truly appreciate perspectives of all types of members. I urge thoughtfullness on posts related to AI. In AOII, AI members are no less than their collegiate sisters.

Happiness and good thoughts.
Silver

[kddani]

I *think* what GP is referring to is women who don't really research much about an org or get to know any of its members or anything, and just send out letters to a dozen or even all 26 groups to try to start the AI process. And a personal irk of mine is when the PNAM's then complain that groups aren't getting back to them instantly.

Of course you should find the group right for you. But, as many rushees who are looking for recs, a lot of people DON'T want to do the legwork involved on their own.

IMHO, AI should be somewhat like the NPHC intake process. The prospectives make the effort to learn about the organizations before they decide to pursue membership. Then they purpose what fits them best.

It's sort of like looking for a job as well. If you just do a mass mail merge and don't personalize your letters and resumes to each company, it just doesn't look good and doesn't look like you really care what job you get for who, just as long as you get a job.

I am also in the voice against sorority-shopping. Shoot me if you want, but that's my opinion. I believe that AIs should find groups that they have a particular connection with and pursue that group or groups. For these reasons, i'm glad that AI in KD is on a very limited basis.

Again, this is my opinion, not KDs, not anyone elses, not necessarily GP's. I think it might be along the lines of GP's thoughts because we've sorta discussed it before, but i'm sure she'll clarify for herself.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Originally posted by kddani
I *think* what GP is referring to is women who don't really research much about an org or get to know any of its members or anything, and just send out letters to a dozen or even all 26 groups to try to start the AI process. And a personal irk of mine is when the PNAM's then complain that groups aren't getting back to them instantly.

Of course you should find the group right for you. But, as many rushees who are looking for recs, a lot of people DON'T want to do the legwork involved on their own.

IMHO, AI should be somewhat like the NPHC intake process. The prospectives make the effort to learn about the organizations before they decide to pursue membership. Then they purpose what fits them best.

It's sort of like looking for a job as well. If you just do a mass mail merge and don't personalize your letters and resumes to each company, it just doesn't look good and doesn't look like you really care what job you get for who, just as long as you get a job.

I am also in the voice against sorority-shopping. Shoot me if you want, but that's my opinion. I believe that AIs should find groups that they have a particular connection with and pursue that group or groups. For these reasons, i'm glad that AI in KD is on a very limited basis.

Again, this is my opinion, not KDs, not anyone elses, not necessarily GP's. I think it might be along the lines of GP's thoughts because we've sorta discussed it before, but i'm sure she'll clarify for herself.

Very well said and I agree completely.

Why should I bend over backwards to help a woman AI into my organization and meet my alumnae chapter members (often vouching for her in the process) when all she is doing is shopping around?

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by kddani
I *think* what GP is referring to is women who don't really research much about an org or get to know any of its members or anything, and just send out letters to a dozen or even all 26 groups to try to start the AI process. And a personal irk of mine is when the PNAM's then complain that groups aren't getting back to them instantly.

YES. I think research is wonderful and should occur. Go to the websites and say "I like Alpha Phi's philanthropy but I also like ZTA's." Maybe even send both of them a letter.

Yes, during recruitment, we do get to see everyone's house and meet all their sisters. However, even if there are 26 chapters on a campus, you don't go to 26 Preference ceremonies. You go to those of the chapters that spoke the most to you, the ones that you feel you really belong to.

[SFHopefull!]

I agree with kddani, which is actually pretty funny becuase I pretty much did everything she doesn't like about PNAMs that pursue AI.

I did do my research, that is for sure. But, I must say after going through all the GLOs (before I contacted them) it was hard to pick just one that I wanted to contact. I do believe that each group has something special about it, and it was tough to narrow down to even a few. I did deside to contact four. At the time I figured if I did get in touch with some of the four groups, I would be able to meet the ladies of each and see where the shoe fit, so to speak. However, I think now I wish I had only contacted one at a time. I haven't heard anything from any of the groups yet, but now that I realize what the process entails on BOTH sides I really hope that only group only responds back to my inquiry, becuasse I don't know what I would do if I was meeting with two groups. I would hate to 'lead' a group on, or have them expend time and energy on me when I already feel like I have found "The One". Hopefully that won't happen, though.

When it comes to the waiting game, I've been waiting for a response for about a month and a half now. I do realize now, after reading some of the threads that have been started in this forum over the past few weeks, not to worry. However, I did post wondering if I should follow up, and kddani (and others) said I need to be patient. I thought at the time "At my work, if a letter came in requesting something, I could not have it sit on my desk for weeks without responding!" (I work in a very fast paced industry.) Now I realize, hey, wait a second, these groups that I wrote to are not there just for people to join. I am sure that if any of the groups I contacted (even the ones that do AI more frequently thatn others), do not just AI people in becuase the policy is that they do accept alumna initiates. they don't have to want you, and they don't have to respond if they don't want to. That is not what the process is about. I'm having a hard time explaining what I mean here, so I do hope that my point comes across without sounding like a total idiot. I'm going to wait until the end of August, I think, before I do try to follow up. But then I think I will only follow up with one group as for the reassons above.

In terms of random people PMing people asking for sponsorship (which I have not done): this is just my opinion, but I would guess that many people read these boards for a while before they begin posting or PMing people, and many of the regular posters (kddani, GpP, Smart Blond, Tom Earp, etc) kind of turn into charaters, and perhaps people feel like they can relate to certain members, and that is why they PM somebody asking for membership. I know that's a strech, but when I first started reading these message boards, I kind of had some of the regulars 'stereotyped' so to spreak, meaning that kddani always says what's on her mind (kddani, not in a bad way, though), GP and SmartBlond are VERY dedicated to their GLOs, and you can count on OTW to make her point, but to also make it with a joke. So manybe that's why some people do that, although I agree that is not the way to go about it. Why would a PNM want somebody who only knows them from limited contact from a website to write them a rec? (Of course, if you meet on a website and are friends and then ask for a rec, that is different.) And why would a woman who is a PNAM want a sponsor from a website that they haven't even met? Again, it's one thing if a contection is made and the friendshp develops, but the first impression is to ask for sorority sponsorship? Why would you want a sponsor being somebody you've never made contact with before?

In any event, although it seems like this debate has stemmed from some personal disagreements between a couple of GCers, I have really enjoyed following the progession, becuase I have really changed my opinion about a lot of things. I wish it had happened beofer I contacted any GLO!

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Very well said SF.

I personally don't think that contacting 4 is a bad thing at all. I think if it was me, I probalby would have trouble narrowing it down as well. But when you're researching groups, it does all come down to seeing something on their website that strikes a chord with you (probably most likely the philanthropy in terms of an AI). Then you need to find an alumnae group near you. It does no good for you to be in love with XYZ if they have no alumnae chapters in your area, or (more importantly) they don't do AI. You have to know that you are going to fit in with the local women before you can feel "at home".

Our latest AI contacted me through GC (she never contacted our IH) because she was interested in Gamma Phi and she saw that we were in the same area and we went from there. And she's more committed to us than some people who have been members for 20 years. But my organization is MUCH more open to AI than others so we are often much more open to helping potential AI's.

And yes, GP and I are very committed to Gamma Phi.......... At this point in time, even after everything I've been through since I joined in 1988 (and that's a lot), even though I get thoroughly infuriated at some things they do, and even though I often vocally question things they do, I can't imagine not being committed. There are any number of people that I could turn to if something bad happened.

Not sure that that had anything to do with the topic at hand......

[honeychile]

FWIW, I see a HUGE difference between doing one's research & narrowing the selection down to three or four and actually sending out letters to over five groups.

I feel the need to again state that Alumni Initiation is not a big phenomenon with Alpha Delta Pi. If you are interested, you are best served by knowing an alumna, and asking for her support, as you can NOT "recommend yourself" for membership.

You can "know" an Alpha Delta Pi via GreekChat, however, and one may show you how to go about the process.

[ms_gwyn]

I have pm'ed 2 people (for myself) with regards to possible help and that offer was posted, I did ask if this was ok to do so and they didn't have to reply if they did not wish to, it was a good thing and a friendship developed from it.

I also pm'ed 2 people asking for advice on how to "weed out the crazies", but I never heard back from them, which was ok, I also clearly stated that is was not for my own pursuit, but I took it upon myself to help someone else out (and it was my offer, they did not ask me), I did come up with some questions and it went from there.

I have been as honest as I could in my AI thread. I stated that I had my group at the bottom of my list but they were still there.

In the very beginning, I think I emailed 3 groups and once I heard from Urania I immediately stopped all pursuit of the other groups that I had contacted, when I did get an email back from one of the others, with a kind, but firm no, I was very happy that, that happened and that I got a response!.

During my "second" foray, I contacted 3 groups, 1, “my home” group (after some very long, hard talks with myself), 1 group that is STILL a dream org for me and another group. I called one of the groups to get some questions answered, when I didn't hear from them, I took that as a que that they were not meant for me. Then I was torn between the “home” group and the dream group (who seemed very receptive to my pursuit), again with some tears and very brutal honest talks with myself, I decided that I would only pursue my “home”, because I was in denial about where my heart belonged. I stopped with them immediately! and it was again the correct decision (man, sometimes fate has you go on a long and twisting road).

I still have doubts (I have to, until I get that formal invitation, nothing is for sure) but I know that they are my home.....

[ASUADPi]

Okay having read this whole thread the only solution I could really think of would be kind of drastic.

And that would be have a moderator from every sorority that does AI in the forum.

I know ADPi AI. I have the paperwork. I have contacts. But I know NOTHING about other sororities AI.

The reason I say, one from each sorority that does AI (which yes might seem a little unreasonable) is because those mod's could go and talk, in the mod forum, and discuss threads. Plus, with one from each group, you are well versed in your own and you don't have to make a guess on someone elses. Like let's say Blueangel and myself are mods. She can ask about ADPi and I can ask about ZTA, (this is not to say that you can go off and give information that you shouldn't be sharing with non-sisters, ie. ritual). This is just talking process.

I hope I'm making sense, I have a feeling I'm not so please feel free to question my logic. I will not be offended, just please don't yell at me and respect my opinion.

[Jen]

Originally posted by SmartBlondeGPhB
Because it's not as common as people seem to think.

It is NOT as common as it appears here. Of all members of Alpha Phi (over 160,000), only 0.9% are alumnae initiates. Less than ONE percent.

[ASUADPi]

For me though the whole point to the subforum is so that we are aware and open to change. We are starting a new program within a few months to really educate alumnae associations on AI.

For the few who don't understand or want to learn the process involved of AI and expect sisters/brothers on greekchat to help them out, by far doesn't outweigh the many who do do the research.


Plus, someone made the perfect point earlier, this is just like the rush forum. PNM's are always posting asking for advice. I think the problem is is that we are assuming that because they are a PNM (which most are 18-19) they don't understand how to get the information they are looking for, but a PNAM is older so therefore they must know how to get the information and that generalization is just inaccurate.


I do understand though that FR has basic rules that chapters across the US/Canada have to follow because they were set up by NPC/NPHC/NIC but AI is different per each chapter. That is why I suggested what I suggested in my prior post.

[navane]

Hi everyone,

I have added some "disclaimers" to the AI Roll Call List. Do you think they will be helpful?

.....Kelly

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~~~ Please keep in mind the following points: ~~~

1) This informational list is presented as a means of celebrating those who have achieved alumni initiation. Out of the hundreds of thousands of fraternity and sorority members in existance, only a small handful are initiated as alumni. Please do not see this long list of names and be fooled into thinking that it is easy to become an AI. The reason that there are many people on this list is because GreekChat has a very large membership base.

2) Just because one may see certain sororities represented more frequently on the list, this does NOT imply that they are "easier" to get into. I highly encourage you to evaluate all of your options and seek out an organization you identify with in your heart. Do not go for one because "it looks like they alum initiate more people".

3) Please be advised that this list is for information purposes only - this is NOT a list of people who are willing to sponsor potential AIs. Please refrain from contacting strangers on the internet and asking them if they can help sponsor you. There are several threads in this forum which offer lots of helpful advice on how to approach this process.