Gamma Phi Beta University of North Dakota Punished for Showing School Pride

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

My thoughts of "a few" are base solely on my experiences and conversations of those who know first hand in their own home environments that the offensive stance is owned by "a few." So if one culture deems it offensive, and another culture says it's not, the first has more valid feelings? Who is right? Which Nation should the mascot's organization honor? Spare the feelings of one, shun the feelings of the other?

This is as relevant as if I told an Asian person "I don't know what you're angry about! I know a bunch of Asians and they laugh at my 'slanted eye' jokes."

Does it matter that 100% of the population doesn't agree since everyone has different brains and not everyone attends the weekly (insert racial group) meeting? No.

Outsiders cannot tell insiders whether something is offensive to some insiders.

[IrishLake]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

I always thought "The Eries" would be a cool team name. But Erie was a tribe of Indians themselves... so I suppose that wouldn't work, even though the lake shares the name?

Which brings me to a new thought, though it's extreme. Does that mean businesses that are named for Native tribes should change their name? What about cities and geological features? If they have Native based names that the Native people themselves didn't designate, should they be changed? Should Miami Valley Plumbing change its name? Miami University? Cuyahoga Valley National Park? What about the Chillicothe Paints baseball team? (The Paint is a breed of horse that is commonly associated with Natives)? Tecumseh Serveying? Is the naming of a place or business acceptable, the line is crossed only when it's depicted as a mascot?

Just thinking aloud at this point.

Just curious about opinions on this... I don't want it to get lost.

Contrary to my Grandma's feelings, if the Cleveland Indians did away with Chief Wahoo, I would be okay with that. I can understand the sensitivity to the logo. I wonder if the organization did away with the logo and truly embraced the honor intended by the team name if that would make more or all parties satisfied.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It's 2014. Move if you don't like it.

Seriously? THIS is your solution? Just move? Wow.

I'm pretty sure if we could all leave our problems behind and move to this utopia you seem to think exists, we would.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

It has historically been less difficult for assimilated white ethnicities to "get over it" but don't tell that to ethnically Jewish whites in the U.S. and abroad. Shhhhhhhhhh....

Schools and teams that chose people/groups mascots generations ago SHOULD rethink that when "climates" change. What was considered appropriate 50+ years ago is often no longer appropriate. If idiots can't handle that, select an animal or other nonhuman as a mascot.

Climates didn't necessarily change. We're talking about organized groups deeming things offensive. It's not as if all of the Sioux Tribes got together and had some sort of discussion and decided they all should condemn this name. Nope. Just a few "concerned citizens" and years and years of tradition are out the window.

[ASTalumna06]

Ironically, I JUST saw this story on the news, then found it online:

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-te...ns-5403772.php

The Houston school district announced new names Tuesday for four school mascots with Native American or historically insensitive ties, noting that the costs of the switch could exceed $250,000.

The Lamar High School Redskins will become the Texans. The Welch Middle School Warriors will become the Wolf Pack. The Huskies will replace the Westbury High Rebels and the Hamilton Middle School Indians.

[shirley1929]

All interesting conversation given the Houston ISD announcement that came today (Thanks ThetaLady and ASTAlumna). And I understand what ThetaLady is saying about "Warriors" but I'm sure most of it was how it was portrayed in logo, etc...

I'm curious. I remember hearing a few years ago that the Seminole tribe (as a whole) gave their blessing to FSU & Chief Oceola & the whole bit. Am I making that up? So are they in effect exempt from any NCAA crackdown on Native American mascots?

[shirley1929]

Double posting, but the Houston situation brings up an interesting one with the name "Rebels". I know a private school in Houston changed their mascot several years ago from Rebels to something else. Looks like a public HS has done the same now. I know there are other "Rebel" mascots out there in public schools (one outside Austin comes to mind?). I'm curious as to why that hasn't garnered as much attention as it should (ahem, Ole Miss!)...?

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

Double posting, but the Houston situation brings up an interesting one with the name "Rebels". I know a private school in Houston changed their mascot several years ago from Rebels to something else. Looks like a public HS has done the same now. I know there are other "Rebel" mascots out there in public schools (one outside Austin comes to mind?). I'm curious as to why that hasn't garnered as much attention as it should (ahem, Ole Miss!)...?

Colonel Rebel was removed as the Ole Miss mascot several years ago. Now we have the incredibly stupid Ole Miss Black Bear. There was a HUGE uproar over the change. A lot of people still won't accept the bear. The University lost a lot of alumni support over it. It caused pain that will take many years to heal. Trust me, there was plenty of attention back when it happened.

[als463]

After reading through this thread, I decided to check out the banner in question. Though it stated, "You can take away our mascot but, you can't take away our pride," I was somewhat confused as to how it has gotten such backlash. Now, I'm not saying it is okay to use different groups as mascots. I am definitely in agreement with everyone on this thread about that. One thing I will agree with Kevin on is that I also hate the NCAA for various other reasons related to how it has treated my alma mater. I took the banner as saying that something traditionally known about the university was removed but, they still show their pride in other ways like cheering on a really good team. Am I missing something? I am not saying it couldn't have been viewed as offensive. I'm asking, was it nearly as offensive as the sanctions seem to suggest?

[AOII Angel]

I remember when that contest went on over the new Ole Miss mascot. My best friend from residency is an Ole Miss Alum. The choices for the new mascot were very limited so the Black Bear (which is technically the Louisiana Black Bear, btw ) was the only decent option. I'm still wishing that George Lucas had okay'd Admiral Akbar for the new mascot.

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I remember when that contest went on over the new Ole Miss mascot. My best friend from residency is an Ole Miss Alum. The choices for the new mascot were very limited so the Black Bear (which is technically the Louisiana Black Bear, btw ) was the only decent option. I'm still wishing that George Lucas had okay'd Admiral Akbar for the new mascot.

Technically, nothing! That is the whole point and a MAJOR reason why so many alum hate the STOOPY bear Maybe if they had picked something that was native to Mississippi, we wouldn't have been so pissed off.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by thetalady

The University lost a lot of alumni support over it.

Citation needed.

[IrishLake]

The Louisiana Black Bear is just a subspecies of the American Black Bear. It's breeding range includes southern Mississippi.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Climates didn't necessarily change.

Yes, they did.

Originally Posted by Kevin

We're talking about organized groups deeming things offensive.

And?

Originally Posted by Kevin

It's not as if all of the Sioux Tribes got together and had some sort of discussion and decided they all should condemn this name.

You are repeating what I said.

I don't expect white people to have a monthly meeting in which they reach a consensus. Why do many white people expect nonwhites to have monthly meetings and consensus in order for a concern to be deemed valid? Rhetorical question.

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by thetalady

Colonel Rebel was removed as the Ole Miss mascot several years ago. Now we have the incredibly stupid Ole Miss Black Bear. There was a HUGE uproar over the change. A lot of people still won't accept the bear. The University lost a lot of alumni support over it. It caused pain that will take many years to heal. Trust me, there was plenty of attention back when it happened.

OMG. I promise I have never heard tell of the Ole Miss Bear??? I've always known them to be the Ole Miss Rebels. I know "Colonel Reb" has been swept under the table, but didn't know about the bear coming in.

This is coming from someone who's niece almost went to Ole Miss, and I write a handful of recs every year for girls going there??? Wow.