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  #31  
Old 02-17-2008, 12:24 PM
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SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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And I think there is a big difference between discussing a struggling, or less popular sorority, and referring to the "worst" house. The one is simply a question of numbers - the other a subjective judgment.
Also, context matters. If you are trying to figure out a way to support a struggling chapter, that's good. If you are indulging in gossip just to have something to say, or in a misguided attempt to make yourself or your group look better, that's bad.
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Last edited by SWTXBelle; 02-17-2008 at 12:27 PM.
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  #32  
Old 02-17-2008, 03:31 PM
GammaPhi88 GammaPhi88 is offline
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Well, the particular house I on our campus that people generally don't want to join is not in trouble, they don't haze, and they don't have a reputation for drinking and drugs. Instead, its more that they're thought to be socially awkward. (This is the campus stereotype, not my personal opinion.) I think they're really nice girls who have been hurt by gossip, and I think it would be great if they could get their numbers up, because they do have a lot to offer. One of my best friends in on the Panhellenic Council, and we were discussing how great it would be if they made quota, and how it would happen.

Ironically, at my school, the most popular house is the house that many would consider the "worst"...and by "worst" I mean they haze badly (a friend of mine is basically their slave right now), and they are on social and academic probation. In fact, they are on the verge of losing their house because they've already gotten their pledges dangerously drunk.
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  #33  
Old 02-25-2008, 09:24 PM
Cheburashka Cheburashka is offline
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its interesting that people keep talking about how reputations can change, because it is soo true, but the thing is.. people have to WANT to change. GammaPhi, i think i go to the same school as you, and i know 2 girls that got bids from that house. Everyone kept telling them to give it a shot so they did. One dropped and Two stayed. after getting past the stupid "reputation" or whatever you want to call it stuff, Two realized that she had more in common with the girls there than she originally thought and One confided that although she met a couple great girls there that she'll miss, it simply wasn't for her. when One dropped, she said there were around 17 girls, i can't believe it's down to eight;
but anyway, my point is- from what they were saying, the girls there didn't really want to change. although everyone would love to have a bigger pledge class, their reputation isnt anything super-negative, they're not coke-heads or alcoholics and they're staying true to themselves. maybe this school just lacks genuine girls that aren't vain that want to rush lol
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  #34  
Old 02-25-2008, 09:35 PM
GammaPhi88 GammaPhi88 is offline
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I think you do go to the same school as me Cheburashka, and I think you have a point that I haven't really heard before. In any sorority, its important that you love your pledge class and the sisters. I know a girl in that house, and she loves it and though she wasn't sure at first, she thinks its the right place for her. And your right...they don't have a negative repuation at all. They simply have low numbers. As for the house itself, I cannot say anything bad about it. It sounds cheesy, I know, but I think that while the house wasn't the right one for me (and thats because the house I am in IS the one for me), it is a great house with very sweet genuine girls.

As for the girls who dropped...if it wasn't quite right for her, thats fine. A few girls do that in many other houses too. Why spend so much time and money on something that is not right for you? Also, I think this school does lack those genuine girls lol. Some of the stuff people said about houses during rush was deplorable.

And I did not know that the PC had dropped to 8 members. Thats news to me! I heard that they had around 26! Can you PM me?
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  #35  
Old 02-26-2008, 03:46 AM
Elephant Walk Elephant Walk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
Every campus has a most popular house, and a least popular house. Unfortunately, those designations are often gleaned from things that have nothing to do with reality.

Or it totally makes sense why they are the lowest house.

Poor tradition, poor rush tactics, and poor connections.

Those are the three main reasons that there is one struggling sorority on my campus.
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Overall, though, it's the bigness of the car that counts the most. Because when something bad happens in a really big car accidentally speeding through the middle of a gang of unruly young people who have been taunting you in a drive-in restaurant, for instance it happens very far away way out at the end of your fenders. It's like a civil war in Africa; you know, it doesn't really concern you too much. - P.J. O'Rourke
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  #36  
Old 02-26-2008, 08:19 AM
texas*princess texas*princess is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephant Walk View Post
Or it totally makes sense why they are the lowest house.

Poor tradition, poor rush tactics, and poor connections.

Those are the three main reasons that there is one struggling sorority on my campus.
What exactly do you mean by "poor tradition" and "poor connections"?

I'm not sure I knew everyone was supposed to have connections with the mafia in order to have a successful recruitment.
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  #37  
Old 02-26-2008, 08:30 AM
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SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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I'm just curious as to how a male is so conversant with a sorority's "rush tactics". Surely he isn't relying on rumors and hearsay.
Plus I can't think of a NPC that has "poor tradition" - since it is EW I assume he means the U of Arkansas.
I'd be willing to bet that the issues already discussed in this thread are more likely to be why a chapter is struggling at U of Ark, or anywhere else, for that matter.
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  #38  
Old 02-26-2008, 08:49 AM
Elephant Walk Elephant Walk is offline
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You are quite often in the fraternity forums and I fail to see why you have any understanding of what goes on in Southern fraternity rush, yet you continue to post.

The chapter struggling at the University of Arkansas made very poor decisions previously regarding members. Close relatives of mine were in the chapter at the time the decisions were made. It also did not have the history or connections to back them up. It is a newer chapter (not the newest, but newer comparatively) which always kicks you in the butt. A successful rush requires connections (that is alumnae, which falls back on tradition) to encourage girls to go certain specific ways.
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Overall, though, it's the bigness of the car that counts the most. Because when something bad happens in a really big car accidentally speeding through the middle of a gang of unruly young people who have been taunting you in a drive-in restaurant, for instance it happens very far away way out at the end of your fenders. It's like a civil war in Africa; you know, it doesn't really concern you too much. - P.J. O'Rourke
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  #39  
Old 02-26-2008, 09:03 AM
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SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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Sorry I ended up with a long post . . .

You will look in vain for a post from me stating why a specific fraternity chapter is not doing well. You will also not find me pontificating on a fraternity's "rush tactics". I am always very careful to state what I am basing my posts on - whether personal experience or simply an opinion. Just for fun I checked my posts in the fraternity rush thread I think you are referencing - while I address the question of racism and nationals vs. local, I can't find any that specifically address an issue of membership selection. So do let me know which of my posts you find uninformed.

Women often are a part of fraternity rush. Men are never a part of sorority rush (well, unless you count them hauling stuff in and out of the house.)The Grand Consul of Sigma Chi personally presented me with a badge replica for my work with their Theta Tau chapter, so it's fair to say that I was a little more involved with fraternity rush and life than the average co-ed. But I certainly don't hold myself up as the end all, be all of greek information. I know what I know, but am quick to state when I don't know something. Please - review my posts.
And quite often? I count 11 posts in one specific thread, and I'd like to know to which particular reply you object.

There is no doubt about my membership status or experience - can you say the same?

If you indeed had relatives in the chapter you are referencing and they discussed membership selection they have seriously violated their sorority's rules. If they were not members of the struggling chapter, but another sorority, then they really don't know what is going on in the other chapter. Hence my reference to hearsay and rumor.

It may well be that the struggling chapter had trouble because of some of their pledges. But that isn't what you stated. Every chapter currently at Univ. of Ark has active alumnae groups in the area - it may be that they weren't as active as other chapters' alumnae, but again, that isn't what you said. Alumnae in Alumnae Panhellenics are the ones who can help "steer" girls to specific chapters, I guess, but you don't discuss the role of APCs.

While the factors you mention can negatively impact a chapter's recruitment, they also can be overcome. I can think of several examples (yes, even in the SEC) where this is true. I've personally advised a chapter that did a complete 180 - improving on every level from numbers to g.p.a. to retention of pledges and members.
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Last edited by SWTXBelle; 02-26-2008 at 09:47 AM. Reason: clarifying
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  #40  
Old 02-26-2008, 08:20 PM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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SWTXbelle, I'm always happy to read what you have to say and I think you do a fine job explaining why you think what you do. I also know from reading it here about your background of service, so I understand the range of experience you bring to the GC table.

That said, I also think there's usually at least a grain of truth in what Elephant Walk posts. For me, the truth he relays falls into the category of stuff I wish weren't true but may be.

Some campuses have several chapters that are so historically strong that it's hard for other groups to do as well because the strength is self-perpetuating. Girls go to college hoping to join certain chapters; those chapters have an easier time recruiting based on this reputation, they recruit top girls; the girls represent well on campus, the group is popular with other groups; the cycle continues. We all know this goes on many traditional campuses.

There's still plenty of room for other less historic chapters to do well. Other great girls go through recruitment and they can find a home and prosper in other chapters and make great grades be involved on campus, but their reputation is made more year to year and they can rise and fall based on shorter term trends because they've really got to rush girls every year without the advanced hype (or as much advanced hype).

So, if the second type makes a "risky" call during recruitment in the eyes of fraternity guys, (I don't mean in the eyes of sorority women or alumnae who hold the core values of the GLO high; I mean too many fat girls or ugly girls, or emo girls, or athletic girls or maybe too many minority members on a campus where "eekkk, we need to be old south") then it can affect the socials they are able to have or which groups will pair with them for homecoming or Greek week or whatever. And the lack of socials and discussion about why makes them less "popular." And then you've got tent talk during the next rush, and then they don't make quota, and then the girls going through rush report to their alumnae mothers that the chapter isn't good or isn't nice, and then the alum moms are less likely to keep helping the chapter, and then the decline in membership continues.

Some groups' status in the popularity hierarchy IS more precarious at some campuses. When they aren't doing well, it may be traceable a decision to go their own way and buck the traditional values of the campus which didn't end up paying off in membership. The "traditional" values of the campus in this area may stink and be antithetical to the core values that the NPC groups all seem to hold, but it's doesn't mean that the chapter is going to be able to prosper.
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  #41  
Old 02-26-2008, 08:56 PM
ASUADPi ASUADPi is offline
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Sometimes it makes me wonder how a chapter can be above total and not even a decade later they are considered "struggling" by nationals. I wonder what happened during those intervening years.

I also feel that other sororities are guilty of ruining a chapters reputation. All it takes is being childish and pissed at another sorority and "boom" the rumor starts spreading like wildfire and if that particular chapter is struggling it gets around. As if the PNM's don't "tent talk"

I mean lets face it, in reality I would guess that 75% of the rumors floating around about chapters are started by other chapters (sorority or fraternity). People talk crap, fact of life. And most people can't cop up to the fact of talking crap.
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  #42  
Old 02-26-2008, 09:17 PM
Just interested Just interested is offline
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Wow!! UGAalum94, did you ever hit the nail on the head. While I agree, also, with some of SWTX Belle's comments, the bottom line is there are those groups that can take risks on a campus and those that have to be very careful about every recruitment. Unfair as it might sound, that is the way it is on many campuses.

There is a pecking order and unfortunately on some campuses some get to peck more than others.
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  #43  
Old 02-26-2008, 09:30 PM
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SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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Please don't misunderstand - I know far too well how easy it is to get a reputation as the sorority that pledges "fat" girls, or "party" girls, etc. My comments were addressed specifically to the vague statements EW put out as being the reason a chapter is struggling on his campus.

My point is that you can't say it is determined by, for example, the length of time the sorority has been on the campus, or even the number of alumnae in the area. I don't know every chapter on every campus, but I would be very surprised if all 26 of the NPCs didn't have at least one chapter somewhere that struggles - no matter how strong nationally, or regionally. (All of them have had chapters close.) Many of us have seen a chapter go from being a top one to being in the middle or below in the space of 5 years or so. I think often there is a "perfect storm" - a lack of alumnae leadership, a bad pledge class or two, actives who give up - and you've got low numbers. Once you have low numbers, it is MUCH harder to compete against other chapters, simply because when pnms walk in the room they wonder why this chapter is smaller. Combine that with tent talk, and you have a chapter in the death spiral.
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  #44  
Old 02-26-2008, 09:44 PM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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I'm not sure why he listed tradition and connections as separate things, unless he meant present connections with well placed fraternities, but I think his triad explains a lot on southern competitive campuses if that's what he meant.

But it may not explain the present status of a struggling chapter so much as what may have taken place a couple of years ago before anyone who is even in the chapter pledged.
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  #45  
Old 02-26-2008, 09:52 PM
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SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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And, conversely, chapters which are doing well can take more risks. I remember one pnm who was a double legacy to us and the top chapter at our campus. She was nicknamed "Ape" - she really did have the unibrow working, and was overweight and very unpleasant. We cut her (I think that's what she was trying to have us do by being so rude) and were shocked when she ended up a pledge to the top chapter. But hey - they could afford to have a pledge or two who was, shall we say, aesthetically challenged.

One of my pet peeves is the kind of trash talk that fellow Greeks engage in - whether fraternity or sorority - when a chapter is struggling. I know it's tough when you are 18 - 22 years old to rise above it, but the fact of the matter is a strong Greek system benefits EVERYONE - and the failure of a chapter affects the entire system. Sigh. That's my personal windmill that I tilt at occasionally.
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Last edited by SWTXBelle; 02-26-2008 at 09:56 PM.
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