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  #1  
Old 12-29-2008, 01:27 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Question After Several Years: What Do You Think of the New Release Figures?

It's been several years now...what do you think?

My opinion:

GOOD--it has certainly beefed up a lot of sororities. Groups who haven't met quota for years, especially at the big schools, are now at total. Under the old rules, many of those groups would have certainly been gone by now.

In many big schools' recruitments, all the sororities have made quota for years and are even adding new groups (like Auburn, Warrrr Eagle! And Theta is coming! ) I'm so happy with the growth of the Greek systems around here.

BAD--the deep cuts after second parties are really devastating to a lot of PNMs. We know so many who have gone from 12 parties on Day 2 to 0-2 on Day 3. Frequently these are either girls from small towns who are unknown by sorority members or those from huge high schools that have lots of sorority members on that campus and the members think that their sorority will be the only one to cut Polly PNM but surely she'll have a lot of options left--but she doesn't.(I hope that makes sense.) The shock of those cuts is so rough that many drop out of recruitment (hey, they're 18) and have a bad impression of Greeks forever. Remember justamom's discussion of that at LSU?

Also, I'm told by many sorority members that more pledges are dropping before initiation. Some say that they were pressured by rush counselors to stay in recruitment when they didn't like their returns. I wonder what the dropout rate is now compared to, say, 10 years ago?

My last concern, and I've talked about this for years, is that legacies aren't being looked at as carefully because everyone's in such a hurry to cut a certain number. In the last 10 years, we only know 2 girls who were able to pledge their mom's sorority at UGA and dozens who were cut by mom's group.

So what do you think?
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  #2  
Old 12-29-2008, 02:27 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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As far as the pledges dropping before initiation...I think some of that is also due to this generation thinking everything is instant. We had a girl on here last week who quit pledging because she didn't click with anyone in two weeks!! In a large chapter, that's hardly enough time to learn everyone's name, let alone "click" unless you all live together or something.
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  #3  
Old 12-29-2008, 02:42 PM
fantASTic fantASTic is offline
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To be honest...I hate it. I think it puts significant pressure on smaller groups to invite back undesirable potentials. As a member of a chapter which is smaller (but only by five or fewer members) than the larger chapters, we get calls every round saying, "We know everyone cut this person including you, but you NEED to invite her back due to your release figures. If you don't, you will fail as a person and chapter." It's retarded and I think if people would realize that we are not obligated to accept undesirable girls, we will not. Yet, we still get several calls every year, even though we ALWAYS refuse to take them. No other sorority gets these calls.
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  #4  
Old 12-29-2008, 02:46 PM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
As far as the pledges dropping before initiation...I think some of that is also due to this generation thinking everything is instant. We had a girl on here last week who quit pledging because she didn't click with anyone in two weeks!! In a large chapter, that's hardly enough time to learn everyone's name, let alone "click" unless you all live together or something.
Very true. It’s the generation of instant gratification. Everything has to happen RIGHT NOW. Patience is a virtue, but it seems like a lot of younger people no longer have it. Not all PNMs drop because of this, but there have been quite a few stories on here lately about girls who aren’t “clicking” with a chapter, and who consider dropping before they ever even pick up a phone to ask one of their sisters to go out with them. I understand that they’re new members of the sorority, and they’re new to the system, but the active sisters aren’t mommy and daddy, and they shouldn’t have to hold their hands in all social situations.
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  #5  
Old 12-29-2008, 02:46 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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FantASTic: WHAT??!!! You're kidding! Is PH making these calls? What would they do if you ignored them? You should, you know.
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  #6  
Old 12-29-2008, 02:50 PM
honeychile honeychile is offline
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^^(quoting 33girl's post) I have to admit, I don't like the new 6-8 week new member period. I've talked to new members and new initiates and am amazed at the "trivia" that they don't know yet. I don't care if Phi Mu is on your campus or not - if you're an ADPi, you should know a bit of the Phi Mu history! And don't get me started about campus history!

In the all and all, I do like the release figures, with a condition: I do think they should be explained better to the PNMs, the Legacies, and the Alumnae. It's a bit like AI - not enough people know enough about it for it to be very effective. Once it's properly explained ("All sororities must cut deeply at X point, and further before each other party. They will try to give Legacies the courtesy of a second chance, but depending on how many PNMs there are, that can't always happen." etc), I think more people will be accepting and act accordingly.

Maybe this is something that Alumnae Panhellenics can do. Yes, send in the recs, send in the Legacy Profiles - but please be aware that Release Figures will change the dynamics of the Legacy system. I'd like to hear that repeated ad nauseum, rather than console one more deservedly heartbroken mom!

PS: I've heard this generation as always expecting microwave solutions to crockpot problems!
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  #7  
Old 12-29-2008, 02:55 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carnation View Post
FantASTic: WHAT??!!! You're kidding! Is PH making these calls? What would they do if you ignored them? You should, you know.
Exactly. Panhel cannot force you as a chapter to invite a woman back if you have voted and decided that she doesn't meet your standards for membership. It would be like national Panhel telling national HQs that they have to colonize at this school or that, even if the group had no interest.

I completely agree w/ HC that release figures should be explained more to alums - an article in the national magazine would be good, especially for those groups who have many chapters where this is likely to occur. I remember right after I pledged reading an article in the Phoenix about legacies not being guaranteed bids - it encouraged the moms to look at things from their collegian point of view (i.e. the girl who is a legacy but doesn't fit in w/ the chapter).
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  #8  
Old 12-29-2008, 03:27 PM
Benzgirl Benzgirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honeychile View Post
^^(quoting 33girl's post) I have to admit, I don't like the new 6-8 week new member period. I've talked to new members and new initiates and am amazed at the "trivia" that they don't know yet. I don't care if Phi Mu is on your campus or not - if you're an ADPi, you should know a bit of the Phi Mu history! And don't get me started about campus history!
Not to deviate from Carni's question, but I hate the reduced new member period as well. If your school participates in fall recruitment, you are initiating girls who may never make grades. You are banking scholarship entirely on what they did in high school, and Lordy, I've seen it backfire.
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  #9  
Old 12-29-2008, 04:00 PM
gatordeltapgh gatordeltapgh is offline
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Education is the key

I agree that additional education needs to be done to help PNM's, current active and alumnae members better understand RFM. What we do know from the data is that overall RFM is working. They system is not perfect but more PNM's are being matched and more chapters are making quota and are close to or at total than under the previous system. RFM will not save a struggling chapter or community, nor will it change the perceptions of PNM's of which group they want to join but it does even the playing field.

In the next breath I will say that I also think that it is helpful for Chapter Advisors, Regional Volunteers, Fraternity/Sorority Advisors, and the like to give feedback to their NPC Delegates. This information can be passed on to help with internal communication or to help the RFM Leadership Team continue to improve RFM.

The RFM Leadership Team is continually looking a ways to improve how the system works and while not all concerns can be addressed right away, communication and patience is important.

Feedback to your NPC Delegate and others in your organization that work with Panhellenic issues can help address communication and education internally. It may feel like the broken record approach but we just have to keep at it as each new class arrives on campus.
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  #10  
Old 12-29-2008, 04:30 PM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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I think that generally the release figures seem to be doing really good things at the chapters that I know about.

I think the one thing that needs to be emphasized more is that the releases are working at the top chapters too. It may mean that they have to release girls they would have been happy to have as members earlier, but if the group is still making quota or quota plus from the pool that they identified early in recruitment the releases are working for them too.

My knowledge is really limited, I admit it, but I think that alumnae and PNMs think that if the girls were invited back more places their chances of pledging those groups would go up, but in reality they really wouldn't have. Highly selective chapters with really high returns rates know who they want early in the process, for the most part. They could string you along and make you REALLY want them, but it's hard to see how that'd be good if they have no intention of offering a bid.

No doubt it does hurt to get cut hard after first or second round but it's not really better than getting cut hard before prefs.

Similarly, more girls may drop out as new members because they were encouraged to maximize options and then weren't really happy with their final results.Considering, however, that these girls didn't get different final results, what harm has it really done them? Is the group harmed by the PNMs having giving them every opportunity to win her over? I wouldn't think so. Sure, they may have gotten a NM who was more enthusiastic about actual membership, but if that's the case, it seems more like the group's error than anything the system can be blamed for.

I'd really love to see data about how the shorter new member periods are affecting retention. I have the impression that what I've seen is positive, but I can't remember where I read it.
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  #11  
Old 12-29-2008, 05:53 PM
Kansas City Kansas City is offline
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I like the release figures method.

From the PNM standpoint, it gives them a more realistic idea of where they might expect to receive a bid. This gives them more of an opportunity to "fall in love" with their future chapter instead of getting hung up on their preconceived notions. From the chapter's standpoint, it requires the more "popular" chapters to make larger cuts earlier (based on past return numbers) so that all chapters ("popular" and "not so") can focus more on who they "really" want with less competition from each other for the same PNM. Hearts are bound to be broken but the bottom line for me is that RFM gives everyone involved a more realistic idea of what to expect earlier in recruitment so that hopefully everyone can have a more enjoyable experience.
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  #12  
Old 12-29-2008, 08:17 PM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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con:at schools with larger panhellenic systems, pnms seem to still be confused when they receive invitations from the chapters they ranked lowest on their list. seems that pnms either aren't listening when it is being explained, or it is not being explained thoroughly enough.

pro:rfm seems to be working. it's not perfect, but it is much better than the previous system.
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  #13  
Old 12-29-2008, 08:37 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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FSUZeta, here's how I remember the system in the past: the bigger groups at each university wouldn't make many cuts until after theme parties, then they'd cut very heavily. That's when we had all the recruitment dropouts.

Quota wouldn't be set until after theme parties, resulting in the bigger groups getting quota with huge pledge classes and several smaller groups making a fraction of quota. Actually, I can't remember any NPC-wide rules, only that each campus seemed to set its own rules.
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  #14  
Old 12-29-2008, 08:45 PM
VandalSquirrel VandalSquirrel is offline
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I've got a lot to say on the subject, need to formulate my ideas (plus some people have already said what I wanted to say), but if some girl wants to drop out and not attend parties because some group is that offensive to her, let her. Sure she'd be out of recruitment, but at least she wouldn't be leading a chapter on, or taking the place of a more open minded person. The sooner they drop out the sooner groups can see who is committed to giving everyone a chance, and girls who may have been released (though desirable to some groups) will have a decent chance.

I hate seeing groups work hard for those who won't give them a chance for whatever reason. I find it really offensive and tacky when a group of women open their home and sisterhood to someone, and that woman can't even give them a chance.

Yeah this will ruffle some feathers, but frankly I don't care. I am tired of groups catering to PNMs with superficial issues and I think RFM is one way we can really weed out women who would join a group at school X and transfer to school Y for the prestige.
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  #15  
Old 12-29-2008, 09:30 PM
AOII Angel AOII Angel is offline
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I choose to take little stock in the anecdotal stories of increased drop out rates because of the shorter new member period or RFM. Change always makes people long for the old days, but until you can give actual research that supports these anecdotal stories, they are nothing but stories. The research says that the system is working better. It makes sense. As for PH calling a chapter and harrassing them to take a girl they cut, it's ridiculous. The chapter I advise cuts more than their release figures recommend every year. They don't get to take quota additions since they didn't "maximize their options," but they are willing to take that risk so they only take women they want. PH can complain, but they can't make you do anything!
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