Being told not to join Greek Life

[lilkel244]

Is there anyone else who Deans tell freshmen not to join greek life? I am in art school and we are told from the first day that we should not join greek life because of the time commitment. I think it is so unfair....what do other people thing about it??

[PMSunshine77]

Ooooh, that is WRONG!!! No matter what type of school it is, its size, its gender mix, its you-name-it, if there's Greek Life present on campus, it shouldn't be spoken badly about, by anybody -- especially not a dean!!!
I've always been under the impression that Deans and other administrators at schools and everywhere else are supposed to be supportive, reasonable, and generally good people. By telling freshmen that they shouldn't go through Recruitment because of the time commitment, he/she's not being supportive at all; it actually suggests that the Dean believes that the students attending that institution are actually incapable of balancing their time.
Greek Life, as we all know full well, is an amazing way to broaden your horizons. I'm a music major in a conservatory of music (also part of a small liberal arts school; I thank God it is!), so I know how closed-minded a lot of people in the arts can be -- so it really is a good breath of fresh air when you get together with your own peers and just take a small break from the world, even just for an hour or so! ... Sounds like your dear Dean didn't do that enough when he/she was in college!

[navane]

Okkkk......





That sounds really odd and dumb. Did the Dean *really* say that to the freshmen? Or, did s/he tell the students to be wise with their time management because the art programs require a lot of outside effort?


If a Dean says "I do not recommend joining a Greek organization because they require too much time" without acknowledging that other clubs and activities *also* require the same time committments....then that is very unfair. I would complain to the university president (or Vice President of Student Affairs, etc) if this is the case.


It is not appropriate for a Dean to be encouraging students to *not* have a well-rounded university experience. I know arts programs have like 4 hour labs, but that's no reason for saying things which do not support other university endeavours. At least, at my alma mater (California State University Long Beach), our university president was a very big supporter of student life and development outside of academic endeavours.


PS - I'm a Student Affairs Professional ("university administrator") so I have a bias towards extracurriculars as a means of growth and development for young adults.

.....Kelly

[sairose]

In a way though, I understand the dean. I am a music major, and while there is one or two music majors in social GLOs, it rarely happens. The time commitment involved in a social GLO (at least on my campus) IMO would be too much along side majoring in music. That is the #1 reason I joined SAI instead of an NPC group; I knew that, to devote the amount of time I wanted to to become a better musician, that an NPC was out of the question.

I'm not saying it can't be done; it can. But I actually do understand the Dean's point.

Although, I'm not sure it was wise of him to advise that to students. Fine Arts majors ARE demanding, but being in a GLO can be done too. It just depends.

[docdaisy]

I wish I could agree with you, but I don't. I was a music major at the Eastman School of Music and was an officer in my DZ chapter (Eastman is part of the University of Rochester). I survived... and I had a great time!

I think it's fine to warn incoming freshmen that they should adjust to college life before going Greek. But to outwardly tell a "Fine Arts" major not to go Greek is wrong.

[33girl]

There was a dean at Bloomsburg a couple years ago that (I think this was the story) put a letter advising people not to go Greek in his department's materials. However he wasn't so nice as to say it was about time commitment...he said Greeks had a negative social aspect and should be avoided!! He got his a$$ handed to him on a plate.

It's one thing if the dean says not to take on too many extracurriculars in a general sense...art school IS time consuming (per Mr. 33). However, if he/she is targeting Greek life, that's discriminatory and wrong. I would contact whoever their boss is and complain.

[AGDee]

Our Occupational Therapy program was very demanding and we had one really whacko professor who felt we should eat, live, breathe OT and nothing else for our junior and senior years. She strongly discouraged working, having boyfriends, belonging to ANY organizations. When one of my classmates was getting married, this prof told her that she should be married to OT! She was a fruit cake. Anyway, I worked two jobs, was in the sorority, plus another demanding organization that focused on student recruitment. I graduated 3rd in my class of 50 OT students. During the most demanding semester (gross anatomy and physiology both in that term), I did tell my sisters ahead of time that I might be more scarce for a term but that I'd be back in full swing afterward.

Generally, only the individual knows what he/she is capable of and nobody else should be deciding that for them!

Dee

[sairose]

Originally posted by docdaisy
I wish I could agree with you, but I don't. I was a music major at the Eastman School of Music and was an officer in my DZ chapter (Eastman is part of the University of Rochester). I survived... and I had a great time!

I think it's fine to warn incoming freshmen that they should adjust to college life before going Greek. But to outwardly tell a "Fine Arts" major not to go Greek is wrong.

Hey, that's fine. What I meant by my post was that it certainly *can* be done, but it is a demanding major. At my school, it's very rare that a music major joins a social GLO. Most join SAI, TBS, or Phi Mu Alpha. Although one comes to mind that is an Alpha Gam and is principal flute in the Wind Ensemble and has very good grades.

So what I really meant was that it can be done; but it would not be easy, and I personally don't know how music majors in social GLOs handle it! I mean, SAI takes up time, but considerably less than the NPC groups. It's cool if you're comfortable enough to add something like that to your scedule; but honestly, you don't see a lot of fine arts majors in social GLOs. You just don't.

Sorry if I was not clear.

[KerriMarie]

Ha ha ha, I had a professor who always made fun of Greeks... like if I would say something intelligent in class, he would say "Whatever, you're in a sorority so you don't count" and freqently referenced "the brothel across the street" (there's a sorority house across the street from the Fine Arts Building) and I guess if you didn't know him and his sense of humor, you could think it was really offensive... He makes fun of everyone though, so it's all in good fun. He also warns all incoming students to the school of theatre not to date within the major, which is pretty sound advice...

I think you just have to kind of take it with a grain of salt - we're so quick to defend our beloved organizations, but yes, they can take up a lot of time - and I'm sure this dean (and my professor) have seen people who have real potential be eaten up by their Greek life and slack in their classes... and really, that's why one GOES to college, isn't it? Yes, there are other aspects and I understand the importance of being well-rounded, but it's really about the education, isn't it? And if you're in a major where you have class 20 hours a week and then the rest of your time is free, it's a lot different than having the 20 hours a week of class, plus 24 hours a week at rehearsal, plus other outside projects and performances and required events... It definitely seems applicable to tell these new students that their major requires a huge time commitment, and to not become involved with any activitiy that is going to jeapordize their success in that major.

I feel like I'm rambling, so I'm gonna shut up now. Thanks.

[Kevin]

Ya'll make me appreciate the administration at Central Oklahoma. When we first came onto campus, we were sponsored by the assistant dean of liberal arts (he served as our faculty advisor and still does). He's now the dean of the college of arts, media and design and an initiate of Sigma Nu.

The president of the school wrote us a letter of recommendation as well. He's an SAE (not represented on our campus).

Luckily, the administration is very pro-greek. Unfortunately, they are cash strapped and can't do a lot to financially support us. However, they've been great about making campus facilities available as well as giving us a major role in promoting the campus.

[Munchkin03]

I would honestly tell someone in art school to think long and hard about becoming a social Greek, especially during the first year. Art and architecture curriculums, especially at schools devoted to the cause (ie, Parsons, RISD, or CalArts, or even Fine Arts or Architecture Departments at top schools), are HELL, and I could see Greek Life really getting in the way of the lifestyle at a campus like that. My undergrad was much more laid back, and I still felt the strain.

College is not high school. Many freshmen come in thinking that they can be president of three clubs, be in the band and cheerleading, play tennis, and still be able to pull a 4.0 'cause they were able to in high school. As a result, they take 20 hours, pledge a fraternity, take on a job, represent the dorm in intramural rugby, and join some other club. They inevitably crash and burn. The administration, especially at a school of the Arts, has an obligation to its students to remind them of what a different world college is, but to single out Greek organizations is wrong--if that is the case at hand.

[KerriMarie]

Munchkin said exactly what I was trying to say, but made it clear and understandable with no brothel references.

Thanks.

[AlphaPhiBubbles]

Fraternities on my campus just got off deferred rush this past fall, and i think in one of the articles in the school newspaper a school administrator was quoted saying something along the lines of not joining a GLO as a freshman. But I'm not 100% about that. I know that the administration is pushing really hard to keep deferred rush and also have it apply to sororities as well.

I also wanted to add, that while my major may not be considered one of the more "challenging" majors...if it wasn't for joining a sorority my first semester, i would have dropped out of college altogether. So for a dean to make that suggestion is plain wrong because you never know what people are capable of.

[lilkel244]

See my problem with the whole situation I guess is sort of complicated...because of the structure of my University, which is 9 colleges all on one campus...each having their own govering bodies, own rules and own reputations Greek Life can be a tricky matter. I am a printmaking major at the Hartford Art School, which is a small school, but ranks right up their with RISD, Parsons and FIT, and printmaking is out number one ranked major, meaning it is the number one school for print in the country. Yes it is a huge time commitment, many people from other majors often really do not understand the time that goes into a conservatory major. My classes are twice as long, twice as often and have twice as much outside work as my engineering roomates who has a damm hard major herself. Despite this I am VP of New Member Ed of my chapter, the art schools Senator in my universitys SGA, and I am on e-boards of two other organizations on my campus. I still manage to makes deans list and get all of my stuff done. Its called multi-tasking and everyone can do it. I am not an over achiever or anything like that, but as a 20 year old I feel like people should be able to manage their time. Now as freshmen in the art school you go throught a program called foundations which is very difficult which is to weed out undedicated artists and I understand they feel that maybe greek life isnt the best choice at the time, but they never say, ok you made it through freshmen year now feel free to join, its just always left at, art students dont join greek life. Because of my Senatorship I come in contact with the freshmen on a weekly basis and they really all have it in their heads that they should only be doing art, that Greek like is a distraction to their education instead of something to supliment it. And yes to the question does the dean really say dont join greek like...he does say exactly that at art school orentation...its crazy

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by sairose
At my school, it's very rare that a music major joins a social GLO. Most join SAI, TBS, or Phi Mu Alpha.... So what I really meant was that it can be done; but it would not be easy, and I personally don't know how music majors in social GLOs handle it! I mean, SAI takes up time, but considerably less than the NPC groups.

I see what both you and docdaisy are saying, and I think you both make valid points. I might approach it a little differently.

In my experience and, from what I can tell, the experience of most brothers I have known from other chapters, Phi Mu Alpha took up just as much time as the NIC fraternities on campus. (At the risk of confirming my broken-record status, Phi Mu Alpha, while not in the NIC, is a social fraternity.) The difference was not in the time that being part of the Fraternity took but rather the reality that since most (though not all) brothers came from the music school/department, activities and responsibilities were organized in such a way as to fit with academic and musical demands rather than compete with them. This can be harder to do when brothers come from a wide variety of majors/departments/schools.

This situation is heavily dependent on an individual campus culture as well. Majoring in music at many colleges and universities (those that Munchkin03 describes as "devoted to the cause") takes a lot more time and effort than at some others that are, shall we say "less devoted." (Some might say "more sane.") At the same time, GLO involvement at some schools is a full-time job, while at other schools it is not.

All of that said, the Dean needs to be quiet and treat students like people who can think and decide for themselves how to balance the opportunities that college life offers.