The fallacy of Sorority Recs?

[DGMarie]

I must confess I have not heard of such a "rec or cut" after open house rule. And this in not the policy of DG as I have read it. I would not support cutting a girl without a rec after round 1 based PURELY on the lack of a rec.

[PenguinTrax]

Every chapter and organization is different. They follow their national guidelines first, chapter/school second.


I think in a perfect world, first round of cuts should be for grades and for definite no-rec situations. I (personally) think that a lack of rec shouldn't be a reason to cut. I have never heard of a girl getting cut for lack of rec, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If the girl is well-received and the chapter wants her, a rec should and can be found. Hell, I didn't even know about recs and look at me now, LOL.

[DGMarie]

I still have to think that even IF a chapter had such a policy, if you went through open house and just shined and they loved you, you'd better believe they'd get you a rec that night.

There is definately a benefit to being socially connected and getting into a sorority. It isn't a level playing field. I don't think it will ever be a truly egalitarian process.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by carnation


On the other hand, there is just no way to select members from hundreds of PNMs in one week if you don't use recs. Been there, done that at 3 SEC schools and if you haven't been involved with recruitment at a big Greek school, don't tell me how it should be run.

We manage to get good pledge classes without relying on recs -- and we do it well. (Recs aren't unknown up here, but they're pretty scarce -- this year we got about 15 recs and one list of 45 names of recommended girls from an alum group in Illinois.) I imagine there are quite a few big Northern schools that don't use recs. And, not to be dismissive of the "Southern way of life" but as far as I can tell we do it just as well or better. For our last three pledge classes we've retained at least 90 percent of each one to initiation. I can't speak for the other sororities on campus, but I'm pretty sure that for all but a couple, this is the rule and not the exception. Meanwhile, I've heard of Southern campuses where retaining 2/3 of your pledge class is considered "good." Of course part of that is the pure size, but I'm sure there are other factors that play into it.

It can be done.

I don't have a problem with recommendations. Who would? I think they're great and they give people a chance to recommend girls that they think would be a good fit with the chapter (if they know the chapter).

The problems?

(1) The stupid business with "It's not your job to get recs, the sorority will get them for you" when that's blatantly not true. I'm sure we all agree that this is psychotic.

(2) As valkyrie said, "the old girls' network." When I decided to rush, I tried to familiarize myself with what I would need to do to prepare. There isn't a whole lot of information out there, especially not around here where, growing up, I didn't really know anyone who went Greek, and my only college friend who joined a sorority did it at an extremely atypical Greek campus. I didn't hear anything about recommendations until I visited GC in late July, which was hardly enough time to get at least 11 recommendations in time for late July (work week) when I didn't know a single sorority member except my DG friend, who probably didn't have a clue what recs were anyway.

Not having a rec doesn't say anything about whether or not a girl would make a bad sorority member. Maybe it means she's a lazy bum who doesn't want to go to the trouble of preparing for rush. Or maybe she didn't know about recommendations. Or maybe she didn't know anybody in your sorority and there was no alum group anyway near her. But like valkyrie said, the "required rec" system punishes first generation rushees who don't have a mom or an aunt or a grandma coaching them through what they're supposed to be doing.

(3) In the South, it can also end up punishing girls not from the South, when a rec from somebody the chapter knows is treated with more respect than a rec from somebody they don't. I'm not arguing with this -- it makes sense to put more trust in people you know and, well, trust -- but it also means that when there is a girl who is from New York but her Mom was a Kappa at Texas and knows you need recs so the girl spent her entire spring running around getting them only to get cut during rush because the sorority women at Auburn don't know her recommender from Adam, she might be just as screwed as the girls who didn't get recs.

Plus, it can hamper the geographic diversity of your chapter. The impression that I get is that in the South, certain chapters tend to be composed of "all the girls from Northern Georgia" or "all the New Orleans girls" in part because they relied on recs from people they knew and so forth -- as opposed to up North, where even the smallest chapter on my campus probably represents at least 5 different states and the larger groups all have women from 10-20 different states.

(4) When you require everyone to have a recommendation, does the rec really MEAN anything anymore? I mean, at my school where only around 15 girls bother to find someone to send them in, you really know that these are girls to watch out for. But if everybody has recs, they don't really tell you much about a girl. It can be hard to tell the girl whose next door neighbor has been clamoring to write a rec for her since she was 2 years old because she thought she would make such a great XYZ from the girl who talked to some alum online and faxed her a list of her high school accomplishments, unless the alum comes out and says so, which they won't always do.

(5) Unless you know the alum doing the recommending very well, you don't have a clue whether or not you can trust what she says. I know we'd all like to believe that they're trustworthy, but I'm sure there have been women out there who gave a girl a no-rec because her daughter accused this girl of stealing her boyfriend when in reality her boyfriend broke up with her daughter, then started dating the other girl. I'm sure there have been women out there who gave a girl a no-rec because of things she heard from the rumor mill that weren't necessarily true. And I'm sure that there have been gross, tacky, skanky girls who have gotten recommendation anyway simply because their recommender didn't know.

Even the most wonderful girls in the universe probably have at least one person that hates them. And even the most terrible girls in the world could find one person to write them a nice rec.

The thing is that, despite its shallowness and opinions based on first sight, sorority rush works. It means that more often than not, the mutual decision process is based on personality. I think that throwing the required rec system in there muddles things up and makes them unnecessarily complicated -- there's almost nothing you can put in a rec that can't be said during rush, except a rec ensures that it's said by somebody else who may or may not be trustworthy.

And throwing recs in there adds another whole degree of shallowness to the picture, where somebody can write "Hey, it would be great if you could get Susie because her dad's a U.S. Congressman" etc., which would probably NOT come up during rush unless Susie brought it up herself . . . which would be kind of tacky.

P.S. I'm sorry I turned into decadence for a while here. Anyway, to sum up: recs = good, requiring recs = no good.

[DGMarie]

Originally posted by sugar and spice

The problems?

(1) The stupid business with "It's not your job to get recs, the sorority will get them for you" when that's blatantly not true. I'm sure we all agree that this is psychotic.

I can only reiterate that which I stated above, which is if you cannot get a rec, and we want you, we will get one for you. Whether this is done after open house or before pref for a girl who is lovely and has no greek connections (wherever that particular chapter requires a rec to move forward) is of no matter. This is my understanding of the rules I have read.

Where this does not happen, where someone who would be of merit to the sorority, is dismissed for the pure reason of no rec, then this is a shame.

I do think, however, that at schools where not having a rec is the true end of the road, it should be clearly stated upfront that a rec is required, and list whom to contact if you need one.

Does that delete the value of a rec then if everyone manages to get one? Not necessarily. Perhaps this analogy is not the best, but what the heck, someone will tell me why not I'm sure: I need people to apply for a job (pledge class). The applicants submit their resumes. A rec is very much like a resume. Some are great. Some are lousy dressed up to be great. Does the fact that I require a resume (rec) from all interested candidates and the fact that they give me one make resumes useless? Of course not. I know the qualities of the person I want for the job. A smart boss can see through a phoney resume after speaking to the candidate, sizing them up versus the others who want the job. In an interview I can tell in about ten minutes if you are a match for the office environment. Rush, in my eyes, is like a job interview. In this sense I find recs useful.

okay, enough from me on this. I'll pass the baton.

[AUDeltaGam]

Originally posted by DGMarie
I can only reiterate that which I stated above, which is if you cannot get a rec, and we want you, we will get one for you. Whether this is done after open house or before pref for a girl who is lovely and has no greek connections (wherever that particular chapter requires a rec to move forward) is of no matter. This is my understanding of the rules I have read.

This is true

[aopirose]

Agree.

Originally posted by DGMarie
I can only reiterate that which I stated above, which is if you cannot get a rec, and we want you, we will get one for you. Whether this is done after open house or before pref for a girl who is lovely and has no greek connections (wherever that particular chapter requires a rec to move forward) is of no matter. This is my understanding of the rules I have read.

Where this does not happen, where someone who would be of merit to the sorority, is dismissed for the pure reason of no rec, then this is a shame.

[carnation]

Originally posted by ISUKappa


But, before we can even extend a PNM an invitation to Preference round, she must have a rec--if she does not have one from an alumnae or other collegiate chapter member, the chapter can vote to give her one.

This statement here is the biggie. If a chapter falls in love with some girl no one knew before, the chapter can give her a rec. Yes, it may be harder for her to get noticed if no one knew her prior to rush and she has no recs but--BUT--I reiterate, a chapter can write a rec or an alum will be found to do it.

I even saw this happen with the most selective sorority at Mississippi State--they usually have their ducks in a row and know exactly who they want to pledge but this unknown girl from a tiny town signed up for recruitment at the last minute and they adored her. Believe me, a rec was "found". If they really want you, they will find a way to get you in

[rainbowbrightCS]

Originally posted by carnation
This statement here is the biggie. If a chapter falls in love with some girl no one knew before, the chapter can give her a rec. Yes, it may be harder for her to get noticed if no one knew her prior to rush and she has no recs but--BUT--I reiterate, a chapter can write a rec or an alum will be found to do it.

I even saw this happen with the most selective sorority at Mississippi State--they usually have their ducks in a row and know exactly who they want to pledge but this unknown girl from a tiny town signed up for recruitment at the last minute and they adored her. Believe me, a rec was "found". If they really want you, they will find a way to get you in

But what about the bigger schools that will cut every girl (or almost every girl) from open parties that do not have a rec prior to that night? They don't know the girl, so how can they know they really want the girl?

[DGMarie]

But what about the bigger schools that will cut every girl (or almost every girl) from open parties that do not have a rec prior to that night? They don't know the girl, so how can they know they really want the girl?

First party everyone goes to. To my knowledge no one cuts girls before day 1 (i.e the first day of rush). Girls with and without recs are there. Suzie Jones has no rec (the sorority already knows this bec they know exactly who is coming through). In the course of their day one rotations, Cindy Sorority meets Suzie and thinks wow, she's great! That night the sisters meet to figure out who to invite back to the second party. Cindy stands up and says we need to invite Suzie back. She doesn't have a rec, the other sisters say, so they go and get one for her if they want to invite her back to their day 2 "you must have a rec to get to this point party." You can get a rec at any point in time.

[James]

That requires an number of fortuitious things to happen lol

Originally posted by DGMarie
But what about the bigger schools that will cut every girl (or almost every girl) from open parties that do not have a rec prior to that night? They don't know the girl, so how can they know they really want the girl?

First party everyone goes to. To my knowledge no one cuts girls before day 1 (i.e the first day of rush). Girls with and without recs are there. Suzie Jones has no rec (the sorority already knows this bec they know exactly who is coming through). In the course of their day one rotations, Cindy Sorority meets Suzie and thinks wow, she's great! That night the sisters meet to figure out who to invite back to the second party. Cindy stands up and says we need to invite Suzie back. She doesn't have a rec, the other sisters say, so they go and get one for her if they want to invite her back to their day 2 "you must have a rec to get to this point party."

[DGMarie]

It all depends on how much they want Suzie!

Since it is publically posted, thought you might be interested in the stated DG policy on sponsorship:

http://www.deltagamma.org/sponsorship_for_alumnae.shtml

Good night folks! Sweet dreams!

Marie

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by DGMarie
First party everyone goes to. To my knowledge no one cuts girls before day 1 (i.e the first day of rush). Girls with and without recs are there. Suzie Jones has no rec (the sorority already knows this bec they know exactly who is coming through). In the course of their day one rotations, Cindy Sorority meets Suzie and thinks wow, she's great! That night the sisters meet to figure out who to invite back to the second party. Cindy stands up and says we need to invite Suzie back. She doesn't have a rec, the other sisters say, so they go and get one for her if they want to invite her back to their day 2 "you must have a rec to get to this point party." You can get a rec at any point in time.

Question: it's the night of day 1, and the sorority must have a rec to invite Suzie back for day 2, so they're going to get one. Let's say that Suzie doesn't know any members aside from the ones she met at day 1. Who writes a rec for Suzie?

[exlurker]

Originally posted by valkyrie
Question: it's the night of day 1, and the sorority must have a rec to invite Suzie back for day 2, so they're going to get one. Let's say that Suzie doesn't know any members aside from the ones she met at day 1. Who writes a rec for Suzie?

Well, if the chapter is that strict, a couple of possibilities could be a) a member she met on day 1, if that GLO allows collegiate members to write recs, or b) an alumna adviser or another alumna helping the chapter, basing the rec on the info provided by the collegiates who met Suzie. It might also be possible to contact an alumna in/near Suzie's home town (one who knows or knows of Suzie, but Suzie didn't know the person was a member) and get a rec or enough info for an alumna helping the chapter to write a rec.

[carnation]

Also, the chapters at big Southern schools will have read and reread the recruitment applications until they're crosseyed - prior to rush. If a girl with no recs has a great resume, the chapters are certain to contact a nearby alum club to get one on her.

However, if Polly PNM has no high school activities to speak of and a low GPA and no rec, she'd better make a huge splash that first day; the sororities aren't going to make any special effort if someone's a non-joiner or might pull their chapter GPA way down. In schools like UGa, the majority of PNMs are going to have close to a 4.0 and impressive activities so you'd better stand out to be chosen...even if you DO have a rec.