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Welcome to our newest member, znathanhulzeo24 |
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03-12-2004, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SiKeS
- It was a hip-hop themed party, black folks have definately had a large influence in today's culture... So whats so wrong with that?
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You don't need to paint your face "black" to follow the theme of a hip-hop party. Nowdays, hip-hop transcends race and culture, and people of all ages, colors, religions, etc. enjoy it and are part of the hip-hop community. Those boys could have easily come dressed in hip-hop style clothing or found another way to follow the theme of the party. I don't buy for one minute that they "had no idea" they would offend anyone.
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03-12-2004, 01:43 PM
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why is everyone calling these kids stupid? these boys knew exactly what they were doing when they put it on. these fools just got caught, don't act like this isn't an isolated incident nor is this the last time something like this will happen. it wouldn't surprise me if more stuff like this went on. it's '04..you think things would be different. it's just stupid that they think people would actually buy their argument that they didn't know it would offend anyone.
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Last edited by starang21; 03-12-2004 at 01:46 PM.
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03-12-2004, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by LatinaAlumna
You don't need to paint your face "black" to follow the theme of a hip-hop party. Nowdays, hip-hop transcends race and culture, and people of all ages, colors, religions, etc. enjoy it and are part of the hip-hop community. Those boys could have easily come dressed in hip-hop style clothing or found another way to follow the theme of the party. I don't buy for one minute that they "had no idea" they would offend anyone.
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You're right. They didn't *need* to paint their faces black to follow the hip-hop theme. But hip-hop was started and is still mostly influenced by black people. If their intentions were merely to dress for the theme, then I don't see anything wrong with what they did.
I may be missing the point completely. It happens a lot. But where I went to high school, where the black population is roughly 35%... Issues like this tend to lose dramatic effect. Black students regularly would call up the whole "racism" thing to get their way, to get others in trouble or just to get attention... And sadly this takes a lot away from my sympathy on issues like this...
If these guys were being blatantly racist, I totally agree and think that it is wrong. But given their situation and the theme of the party, I just fail to see what the huge deal is. If a black person decided to paint his face white, it would be a totally different issue.
---- Also -- While blackface in the old days was used for entertainment while making fun of blacks, many of the shows also included african americans in the acts or side-shows to dance or sing... This led to blacks staring in major roles and then to the black theatre movement. (Movies like cabin in the sky, raisin in the sun, etc)
Last edited by SiKeS; 03-12-2004 at 04:46 PM.
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03-12-2004, 04:50 PM
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One word...Eminem. Get with it people. This is just such a disgrace!!
Quote:
Originally posted by LatinaAlumna
You don't need to paint your face "black" to follow the theme of a hip-hop party. Nowdays, hip-hop transcends race and culture, and people of all ages, colors, religions, etc. enjoy it and are part of the hip-hop community. Those boys could have easily come dressed in hip-hop style clothing or found another way to follow the theme of the party. I don't buy for one minute that they "had no idea" they would offend anyone.
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03-12-2004, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SiKeS
You're right. They didn't *need* to paint their faces black to follow the hip-hop theme. But hip-hop was started and is still mostly influenced by black people. If their intentions were merely to dress for the theme, then I don't see anything wrong with what they did.
I may be missing the point completely. It happens a lot. But where I went to high school, where the black population is roughly 35%... Issues like this tend to lose dramatic effect. Black students regularly would call up the whole "racism" thing to get their way, to get others in trouble or just to get attention... And sadly this takes a lot away from my sympathy on issues like this...
If these guys were being blatantly racist, I totally agree and think that it is wrong. But given their situation and the theme of the party, I just fail to see what the huge deal is. If a black person decided to paint his face white, it would be a totally different issue.
---- Also -- While blackface in the old days was used for entertainment while making fun of blacks, many of the shows also included african americans in the acts or side-shows to dance or sing... This led to blacks staring in major roles and then to the black theatre movement. (Movies like cabin in the sky, raisin in the sun, etc)
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because black folks are the pioneers of the hip hop culture, it's ok to put on black face at a "hip hop" themed party? are you serious?
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03-12-2004, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by starang21
because black folks are the pioneers of the hip hop culture, it's ok to put on black face at a "hip hop" themed party? are you serious?
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He also said "If a black person decided to paint his face white, it would be a totally different issue."
Now there are two people confused here (maybe more).
Last edited by LatinaAlumna; 03-12-2004 at 08:32 PM.
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03-12-2004, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SiKeS
I may be missing the point completely. It happens a lot. But where I went to high school, where the black population is roughly 35%... Issues like this tend to lose dramatic effect. Black students regularly would call up the whole "racism" thing to get their way, to get others in trouble or just to get attention... And sadly this takes a lot away from my sympathy on issues like this...
---- Also -- While blackface in the old days was used for entertainment while making fun of blacks, many of the shows also included african americans in the acts or side-shows to dance or sing... This led to blacks staring in major roles and then to the black theatre movement. (Movies like cabin in the sky, raisin in the sun, etc)
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I love to hear this argument. Because someone at some point in time EXPLOITED an issue, whether it's racism or sexism or whatever, doesn't mean that when someone else raises the issue that it's not valid. And I'm sick of people, usually white individuals, trying to play the issue out like it's moot because one person in their life took advantage (if they actually did so and it wasn't just their perception) of a situation. I'm sure some of my counterparts in HS thought we were using the "race card" to have a Black history month program by alerting the media and school board of a planned walk out the last week in January. What they would have missed was us TRYING very hard to work with the administration BEHIND the scenes to come to an agreement on something we could both live with.
Black face EVENTUALLY led to more opportunities for Black actors but guess what? They ALSO had to perform in BLACKFACE. In case you were wondering, watch an interview from someone that performed during that time (and they do exist) and they will tell you that it was one of the most demeaning ways of making an existence. To have their NATURALLY Black faces painted over and their physical features exagerrated to entertain people who couldn't care less about them at the end of the day. An accurate understanding of how detrimental that was to the Black community would NEVER allow someone to even think it might be okay.
And no matter what the theme of the party was it does not require you to demean anyone else to get your point across. Not to mention that over the last four years at least five incidents like this have made national news and in NONE of those situations was anyone like oh it was just a joke let the boys slide so what would possess someone to think we'll give it the old college try and hope no one gets offended THIS time?
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03-12-2004, 09:00 PM
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I'm not saying that it was a good thing they did. It wasn't. But honestly, do you think that if they knew they would offend so many people and that it would cause such a mess that they would have went through with it?
I think they ignorantly decided to do what they did to fit the theme of their party. What they did (as others have mentioned) is also lawfully allowed by the constitution. Although I wouldn't have chosen to do what they had, I'd definately fight the University in court.
I just think it sucks that such issues aren't judged on intentions but as general perception. Everyone ignorantly does something from time to time which happens to offend SOMEONE. Did you mean to do it? No. Does that make it right? Depends, usually not. Should you be punished for it? I don't think so... Not this harshly. It seems that it was just a brain fart on someones part where they did not think about the negative consequences. Happens everyday. Be upset at the hate groups out there commiting hate crimes, not at the ignorant kids who went out to have a good time but did not think a great deal about what they were doing...
--- Please don't think I'm trying to defend what they did and say it was "alright." I'm just trying to see both sides, express my opinion and be open minded ---
Last edited by SiKeS; 03-12-2004 at 09:02 PM.
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03-12-2004, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SiKeS
I'm not saying that it was a good thing they did. It wasn't. But honestly, do you think that if they knew they would offend so many people and that it would cause such a mess that they would have went through with it?
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Well the point I'm trying to make is that in each of the previous incidents MORE people were offended than were not. It wasn't an isolated incident, there was national coverage and sanctions by EACH of the universities and governing bodies of the fraternities. How could you NOT know the possibility that offending someone exists, even if you JUST look at the other inicidents in Oklahoma, Tennesee, Ohio etc etc, and if it does why do it. Are there times when I have unintentionally offended someone? Yes but the difference is I was woman enough to admit that I had and take responsibility for it by apologizing and trying to figure out why. That is something this chapter has YET to demonstrate.
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03-12-2004, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by msn4med1975
Well the point I'm trying to make is that in each of the previous incidents MORE people were offended than were not. It wasn't an isolated incident, there was national coverage and sanctions by EACH of the universities and governing bodies of the fraternities. How could you NOT know the possibility that offending someone exists, even if you JUST look at the other inicidents in Oklahoma, Tennesee, Ohio etc etc, and if it does why do it. Are there times when I have unintentionally offended someone? Yes but the difference is I was woman enough to admit that I had and take responsibility for it by apologizing and trying to figure out why. That is something this chapter has YET to demonstrate.
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Ah
Accidents don't become mistakes until you refuse to correct them... And that certainly includes apologizing. I'd think the least they could do is apologize. Especially after realizing they had offended others. I see your point.
-Matt
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03-12-2004, 09:20 PM
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I wasn't there, but my understanding would be that the atmosphere of the meeting would not have been actually very fair or proportional to what happened. If they walked into an extremely hostile environment what incentive is there for them to stay? To play the victim so that other people could feel better about themselves?
I am sure they would have stayed in any logical rational discussion.
Quote:
Originally posted by KEPike
We can read the thread to see the debate about constitutionality and all that, but really what this comes down to is tolerance. Is a lack of tolerance on the Pikes part cause for charter removal? Probably not. Does it show a huge amount of immaturity and unwillingness to work for a better resolution? Definitely.
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Last edited by James; 03-12-2004 at 09:30 PM.
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03-12-2004, 09:21 PM
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thanks for understanding
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03-12-2004, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rudey
I just see a stupidity issue in a lot of these incidences. It's like hey you're ignorant already but why can't you be ignorant in private?
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I'm sorry. I'm just too tired of seeing this stuff, and then these threads, year after year.
The arguments never change, and nobody seems to learn any lessons either.
Rudey has used the correct word, though. Stupidity.
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03-13-2004, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SiKeS
I'm not saying that it was a good thing they did. It wasn't. But honestly, do you think that if they knew they would offend so many people and that it would cause such a mess that they would have went through with it?
I think they ignorantly decided to do what they did to fit the theme of their party. What they did (as others have mentioned) is also lawfully allowed by the constitution. Although I wouldn't have chosen to do what they had, I'd definately fight the University in court.
I just think it sucks that such issues aren't judged on intentions but as general perception. Everyone ignorantly does something from time to time which happens to offend SOMEONE. Did you mean to do it? No. Does that make it right? Depends, usually not. Should you be punished for it? I don't think so... Not this harshly. It seems that it was just a brain fart on someones part where they did not think about the negative consequences. Happens everyday. Be upset at the hate groups out there commiting hate crimes, not at the ignorant kids who went out to have a good time but did not think a great deal about what they were doing...
--- Please don't think I'm trying to defend what they did and say it was "alright." I'm just trying to see both sides, express my opinion and be open minded ---
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by saying that you don't think anything is wrong with it, you're defending them. i don't think these kids cared whether or not they offended anyone. they're just sorry that they got caught. and again, why is everyone calling them ignorant? they knew exactly what they were doing.
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03-13-2004, 02:07 AM
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Okay here's my .02 cents!
Whether it was an hip-hop party or a slave auction what the Pikes did was WRONG!
But I'm not surprised that the Pikes did this, it sounds like par for the course in my opinion. We have a Pike chapter at my school and females (GDI's & Sorors) have been told by not only other females, but also by males to stay away from the Pikes.
They've become known as the Ruffie/GHB Fraternity on my campus.
They've been on probation and suspended several times by the univeristy and I've been told that their nationals put them on serious probation for a time, but it didn't change anything they did what they had to do to get off probation and then everything was business as usual for the Pikes (so to speak)
A female friend of mine was hit in the face by a Pike during a fight with GDI's and other fraternity members at a frat party. The Pike broke her nose as she was trying to leave the party once the fight broke out. Several guys went to the hospital after suffering serious injuries. Oh and by the way the Pikes started the fight.
I know that there are several active and alumni of Pi Kappa Alpha on this thread and I know I will probably recieve some negative comments for my post, but I'm just stating what I know about the Pikes on my campus and I'm sure that the fraternity on a national level does not condone nor participate in actions that these two chapters have done.
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