It is certainly not true that I have claimed to be a member of any fraternity ever, Hoosier. I have certainly not claimed to be a member of Phi Alpha Delta and I am pretty annoyed that you have said I have done so, in a post which naturally I cannot amend myself. So I would appreciate you editing it.
As it happens, yes I do
aspire to becoming a member of that particular fraternity, if I do submit a petition for a charter, they will judge it and, perhaps, approve it. Right now at most, I am a member of an interest group which aims to become a chapter of an international fraternity - specifically Phi Alpha Delta. Please amend your post, as it would be fraudulent and inappropriate for me to NOT request you do this in view of my non-membership (which to iterate I have not claimed).
And Tom, I am NOT in a legal fraternity, hence all the posts asking for advice and feeding back of my own experiences on these forums about trying to start an interest group to petition as a chapter to one.
I have little doubt were it not for this forum my chances of sucessfully forming a group/it becoming as good a group as it may be would be significantly reduced.
THAT is why I attacked Hoosier, because what came across to me was that his raison d etre (sp?) was to submit post after post of stories about greeks are bad/greeks do this etc. It makes it a less pleasant forum for all of us. I question his motives for that; for me it does not wash that to not post them will not make them go away - especially when that is ALL a GC member appears to post - he seems (to me) to contribute very little of his OWN opinions of GLOs. No other poster seems to come to this forum and post solely material which is negative about the greek system. The logical assumption might be said to be that he doesn't LIKE fraternities and sororities in which case why post?
The French author Flaubert once wrote that he disliked Uncle Tom's Cabin because the author was constantly preaching against slavery. "Does one have to make observations about slavery?" he asked. "Depict it; that's enough." But in making such posts Hoosier and a) not even expressing opinions on them (to any length) and b) posting negative articles largely being all you do, ad infinitum... we are left to wonder and the posting of them grates on us.
And Tom, calling me dense was uncalled for. As far as I was aware, I responded to some of the points in your post in turn, though I disagreed with the points I did not launch an attack on you? As I have said before I may disagree with some things you say - that does not mean I don't respect your views, or you.
And no I am not in a social fraternity Tom, I never said I was - there aren't any (largely speaking) in England. I just happen to very much like what I know of the fraternity system and would like to start a chapter at my campus that's all and I happen to like the ideals of one particular group. Had there been fraternities on my campus I most probably would have tried to join one. Not everyone has the same opportunities.
Also... upon reflection, I apologise for my childish comment about Hoosier in relation to a certain statement he made. I'm not going to quote my particular comment again but I'm sure you know which one I mean. Though I still disagree with him and his habit of posting a lot of these stories and would like to know his reasons for the pattern of behaviour - if it is more than an attempt at troublemaking, there's no need for me to be personal so apologies for that sentence.
I'm really duty bound to respond to a couple of other comments about PAD here too to clear it up.
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Considering that 'Decadence' claims membership in Phi Alpha Delta (only a pre-law fraternity).
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I have no idea what your use of the word 'only' is supposed to mean?? To reiterate, I never claimed membership. PAD is a
Law fraternity which, as well as having law school and alumni chapters
also has pre-law chapters - the pre-Law chapters started in the 1980s the fraternity itself in 1902. I'm typing this because I do not want to contribute to misinformation through my own silence about a fraternity I am not a member of.
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and based on the famous alumni PAD claims:
"SIX former presidents were PAD members - (including) James E. Carter Jr. and Bill Clinton."
"Prominent attorney Jonnie Cochran"
"Numerous congressmen and senators including Hillary Clinton"
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The specific text quoted here (i.e. SIX being in capitals) tells me this list is from the
website I created myself (Hoosier presumably got the link from my GC profile) for my own interest group; hence the amateurish appearance of the site - I did my best
. The site includes the text:
"Although unable to officially declare any affiliation until granted our charter we are excited to have heard Phi Alpha Delta International Law Fraternity are certainly interested in the possibility of working with us. [Views expressed in this document are my own and not those of The <deleted for this GC post> University]." Working with us means they have said they are receptive to the possibility of my petitioning them. The HQ has okayed my use of the term. My site also makes it clear it is an interest group and specifies that fraternity as being the one we hope to affiliate to.
The official website of Phi Alpha Delta International Law Fraternity is at
www.pad.org. I have no connection with Phi Alpha Delta and am NOT a member of them; nor can (or do) I speak for them. Who knows what the future may hold - but not a member now. The list on MY website is taken from the prominent alumni list on the official fraternity website of PAD. I have specified certain alumni from the long list on that official site (those presidents, senators and attorneys) as those are most likely to be people that students on my campus might have heard of - e.g. Cochran through the OJ Simpson trial on TV, and naturally Presidents.
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Surely this list includes the two worst presidents of the post-WW2 era, a slimy lawyer, and Hillary, a lying crook who should be in jail.
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Not my place to comment. It remains the alumni you list are prominent members of the Fraternity and are famous.
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I'll dismiss her/him (Decadence) as a typical hyper-liberal campus promoter of political correctness, unable to make an effective argument without attacking the decent opponent within 30 seconds.
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It's 'him' (Richard). I was not overly personal, excluding a 'minor indiscretion'! I'm not sure how I was especially 'politically correct'? If you choose to dismiss my thoughts that is your prerogative, but I continue to question why you post the material you do. My complaint is not a lone voice in the wilderness. Other people take offence too - even in this thread. If you commented and debated here about what could be done to STOP and PREVENT some of the negative stuff which happens in the name of greek life that would be understandable, commendable even. But you do not. It is the absence of comment and the absence of explanation for the blindly posting continual diatribes about how bad greeks are, on a forum dedicated to them, a forum FOR them which I have a problem with. Difficult things can be brought up, take James. He posted (this is from memory so forgive any minor mistakes) a thread called 'Hazing works'. As one might expect, it caused anger. But, he persisted to say he was trying to start a real debate and the facts were though it WAS effective on some levels in building some sort of bond it WAS at a terrible cost... SO, he went on to ask, how could we build fraternal bonds without hazing. In other words a difficult subject important to the greek community... discussed. Your posts Hoosier do not do this.
That is why I question your motives - the WAY you do what you do, and the apparent absence of any higher purpose to your postings. (eg prevention).
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This all started out with a posting about www.badjocks.com mentioning TX A&M and a series of non-fraternity hazing events there. Decadence jumps right for the throat of Hoosier and badjocks.
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No, just Hoosier
. I never mentioned the site.
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We're against the hazing at TX A&M. It does nothing constructive to attack Hoosier or badjocks.
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We're all against hazing period. I attacked you Hoosier because all you are seen to do is post these negative stories. For that matter, it wasn't even possible for me to tell you WERE against hazing prior to you making that express statement.
This post is getting long and probably repetitive so I'll end it now. Hopefully it's reasonably coherent. I'm happy to debate more in other posts.
Decadence... aka Richard... not yet a member of any GLO!
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Re: Why are we attacking the messenger?
I feel I must reply
. Just who does Hoosier think he is benefitting from subjecting people to this? In around 450 posts he's scarcely had one positive thing to say about fraternities or sororities or for that matter had many comments of his own beyond an implied 'here is another damaging article'. And people wonder why we question his motives???? 
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