Does your chapter haze?

[UCFgirl]

Originally Posted by macallan25

You are in a sorority....totally different

e

You are right...

Consider the rush process to get into a fraternity 3-5 days, you meet the guys about 30 minutes, consider whether or not the guys gets a bid. Afterwards, you can decide whether or not he stays.

Panhellenic recruitment process, 4 days (very long days), in which each day you the PNM and the chapter must narrow down the voting. It is a mutual selection process, meaning if a chapter doesnt want you, you wont go there. And if you don't want the chapter, you wont go there. At the end of an extremely long, stressful week (and hot if you are down south), you finally (if you are lucky enough), get a bid. You don't think after an application, reccomendations, and 4 days of stressful voting/weeding out/life changing decision making, that these girls didnt have it rough enough to become a member? You feel that they need 16 weeks of torture to earn their right to membership.

During the new member period (at least for my organization), you must follow the exact rules as sisters (including expectations for participation, social conduct, grades, etc). If during 8 weeks, yoou cant follow those rules, then you wont get initiated, until you prove you can.

Sororities and fraternities look at recruitment/rush in a completely different manner, so dont you then think that their pledge period/new member period should also be done so?

Please dont think that women dont know anything. We have just as much to know about risk management issues, recruitment, etc as the men, if not more. have you looked at/read the risk management policies for sororities lately, they are books.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by UCFgirl

e

You are right...

Consider the rush process to get into a fraternity 3-5 days, you meet the guys about 30 minutes, consider whether or not the guys gets a bid. Afterwards, you can decide whether or not he stays.

Panhellenic recruitment process, 4 days (very long days), in which each day you the PNM and the chapter must narrow down the voting. It is a mutual selection process, meaning if a chapter doesnt want you, you wont go there. And if you don't want the chapter, you wont go there. At the end of an extremely long, stressful week (and hot if you are down south), you finally (if you are lucky enough), get a bid. You don't think after an application, reccomendations, and 4 days of stressful voting/weeding out/life changing decision making, that these girls didnt have it rough enough to become a member? You feel that they need 16 weeks of torture to earn their right to membership.

During the new member period (at least for my organization), you must follow the exact rules as sisters (including expectations for participation, social conduct, grades, etc). If during 8 weeks, yoou cant follow those rules, then you wont get initiated, until you prove you can.

Sororities and fraternities look at recruitment/rush in a completely different manner, so dont you then think that their pledge period/new member period should also be done so?

Please dont think that women dont know anything. We have just as much to know about risk management issues, recruitment, etc as the men, if not more. have you looked at/read the risk management policies for sororities lately, they are books.

I never meant for it to come accross like I didn't think yall knew anything. Sorry if it did. One thing though, good solid chapters, atleast in the South...know who comprises the majority of their pledge class a while before school even starts. Fraternities are just different. The only acceptable pledge period as far as i'm concerned is a whole semester.

[PhrozenGenius]

Question: Do you deliniate at all between pledging and hazing? Can you pledge without being hazed?

(This is mainly for IFC and NPC greeks because this discussion happens on various levels ALL the time amongst NPHC greeks.)

My biggest thing is, and has always been, what is this specific seemingly ridiculous act teaching me about my organization and/or about manhood?

Some of the stupidest things that "Candidates" are asked to do during the Membership Intake Process are actually different customs and traditions of the organizations used to teach new members of the lore and legend of the fraternal organization.

Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc. is a non-hazing organization and has actually had that stance since the 30's

"These cruel beatings which, in many instances, have
left men marked and scarred for life is driving men
away from Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity. Many men are
outside the thinking of this".
Alpha Phi Alpha General President
Belford Lawson, 1934.

[SoCalGirl]

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

Question: Do you deliniate at all between pledging and hazing? Can you pledge without being hazed?

I think that most people would say YES!

The problem these days, IMO, is that way too much is considered hazing. I understand that some idiots took things too far and ruined certain activities for everyone but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

I'm actually very surprised at the number of people who said they weren't hazed considering Kevin said use your organization's definition of hazing.

For example, I never felt like I was in any danger or put under any mental stress or any kind of anguish that I would have considered hazing. But, by my organization's definition I was hazed from day one.

At least one of the activities was something that I did as a Brownie and Junior in the Girl Scouts! How can it be hazing when I'm an adult willingly participating in the activity but it wasn't hazing when I was 9 years old and my mom and other adults as well as fellow 9 year olds participated?

Examples of things that are considered hazing...

Dances to present your new members to the chapter or Greek community. Like a mini deb ball for the girls. Since the NMs are all in white and nobody else is it sets them apart, therefore hazed.

Serenades to introduce the NM class to the fraternities. Again, since the older members aren't doing it it's set apart the new class and they're being hazed.

Family names and NM Class names. Sorry you can't be the Alpha Beta Pledge/New Member Class and you can't be in the Rockstar or Bunny Family because that would cause division and it's hazing!

Morning kidnaps and being taken to breakfast in your PJs. Sure, your being woke up at 530AM and being asked to come with your sisters in your PJs. Some creative sisters may even get you a crown because your the princess. Sure, your back home from breakfast in time to get ready for your 8AM class. Sure, you did it when you were 9 years old. You just didn't realize how traumatizing it was back then.

We never did any scavenger hunts but, again, I did when I was in Girl Scouts!

I'm sure all the rules are probably even more strict since when I graduated 6 years ago.

[blueangel]

The definition of hazing has changed since I was in college. My pledge period was really fun, but some of the things we had to do would now be considered hazing.

For instance: we had to earn "pledge points." You got them for various things such as shining the silver, attending pledge meetings, or helping to set up for an event.

We had pledge knowlege tests each week at our meetings on different things that were in our pledge manuals. You had to obtain a certain score in order to go forward.

We had no idea when initiation would be. At dinner one night, the class ahead of me was surprised with an announcement. I can't go into detail, but it was really beautiful and special the way they let the girls know.

The pledge period was really long.. I think it was somewhere between 8 to 10 weeks.

We were sent out on scavenger hunts. I thought they were a lot of fun.. but they're no longer allowed.

And there were "pranks." Such as tying the chairs to the table so you couldn't pull out your chair. The sisters did pranks to us, and we did them to the sisters. They were never mean spirited... just silly.

As I understand it, none of this is allowed anymore.

Nothing was "degrading".. in fact, there was always so much love in the house... it truly felt like a second family. Pledges were made to feel special. The sisters went out of their way to make us feel welcome.

For instance.. we had "pledge pockets" at the house (sort of like the thing that hangs on your closet door to put your shoes in). Each pledge had their own "pocket" . Everyday, when you went to the house for dinner, you would find notes, candy and all kinds of goodies from the sisters.

Great times.. wonderful memories.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I never meant for it to come across like I didn't think y'all knew anything. Sorry if it did. One thing though, good solid chapters, at least in the South...know who comprises the majority of their pledge class a while before school even starts. Fraternities are just different. The only acceptable pledge period as far as I'm concerned is a whole semester.

Back in the day Brother mine was just short of a semester. Seemed longer at the time
P.S.: Just looked at my Initiation Certification and it was a bit longer than a semester.

[TopSider]

If you dont haze, then your not a fraternity. Simple as that. If you are in the South and do not haze, then your an embarassment.

[RhoPsiDST]

the thread it funny as hell....

[broomstick]

Hazing is ridiculous. Especially when it becomes dangerous or hazardous to a person's mental and/or physical well-being.

Our pledges aren't even allowed to drink any alcohol whatsoever during our I-week.

However, I don't see how a road trip is considered hazing, especially when it isn't required and is already planned as a brotherhood event. And calisthenics is kind of a grey area to me, because I've had workout buddies who were pledging my house before, and if anything, it's a physically beneficial activity.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Does your chapter haze?

Define hazing as anything which your organization or your state says is against the rules.

I guess it depends on what is considered hazing. I mean it seems like everthing is considered hazing now.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

I guess it depends on what is considered hazing. I mean it seems like everthing is considered hazing now.

Cheerful'-You seem to be new to GC.
You may find it helpful and educational to take the time to read many of the older threads in RM.

[reverie]

It seems as though you can make anything into hazing though. We used to do a scavenger hunt for big/little reveal, but then were told that it could be seen as hazing. So it was suggested that we change to writing the bigs name at the bottom of an ice cream sundae and having the new member finish the ice cream. Cute idea until you hand a bowl of ice cream to someone who you didn't realize is lactose intolerant. So is it hazing then?

I think this debate could go on forever though.

[theEngineer]

God, after reading all the national panhallenic stuff that they require, I'm so glad Im in a local fraternity. It's nice not having a national office telling you how to run business. If anything, we answer to alumni, who would have us really haze. What we do currently is only considered hazing in the sense if mental abuse and maybe sleep deprivation when pledges forget that they can sleep.

Originally Posted by theEngineer

God, after reading all the national panhallenic stuff that they require, I'm so glad Im in a local fraternity. It's nice not having a national office telling you how to run business. If anything, we answer to alumni, who would have us really haze. What we do currently is only considered hazing in the sense if mental abuse and maybe sleep deprivation when pledges forget that they can sleep.

What does your university think?

What about the state you live in? What are their hazing laws like?

If I were you, I'd pray that you guys never get slapped with lawsuits.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by OTW

What does your university think?

What about the state you live in? What are their hazing laws like?

If I were you, I'd pray that you guys never get slapped with lawsuits.

I agree. Just because you are a local does not excuse you from school, local, state and federal laws and regulations.
And your "older and wiser" Brothers should by now know better.

However as pointed out above and many times before this "agrument" has been and will be played out over and over and over again.