GreekChat.com Forums  

Go Back   GreekChat.com Forums > Risk Management - Hazing & etc.
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Risk Management - Hazing & etc. This forum covers Risk Management topics such as: Hazing, Alcohol Abuse/Awareness, Date Rape Awareness, Eating Disorder Prevention, Liability, etc.


Register Now for FREE!
Join GreekChat.com, The Fraternity & Sorority Greek Chat Network. To sign up for your FREE account INSTANTLY fill out the form below!

Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail:
 
Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

  I agree to forum rules 

» GC Stats
Members: 325,456
Threads: 115,511
Posts: 2,196,579
Welcome to our newest member, zatylerahvso465
» Online Users: 2,313
0 members and 2,313 guests
No Members online
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 03-24-2016, 07:03 PM
navane navane is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,873
One of the articles seems to imply that there were concerns about the criminality of the acts that were alleged to have occurred.


Quotes below are from the WFAA news article - http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/dalla...wsuit/98523039

Quote:
"Embarrassed by this ritual, one of the seniors tried to participate wearing a vest to cover up her chest," the suit reads. "As that senior was about to enter the Chapter room, girls on Chapter Council (Kappa Chapter officers) and a couple of seniors pulled off the vest the senior was wearing."
Quote:
Rangitsch, the sorority's national director of standards, was sent to investigate the incident. However, the suit alleges she interrogated members and threatened to show the video to SMU administrators. She then advised members to call their parents and hire lawyers "because they had violated Texas laws and could be prosecuted for sex crimes and end up as registered sex offenders."

This is where I think we're hitting the crux of the issue. How bad was the actual behavior? Regardless of if they were in underwear or topless or whatever, "forcing" or pressuring members to perform in a compromising situation is hazing. I think it would be especially bad if the one young woman indeed had her top ripped off as described. Someone could bring the ripping off of the vest up as a sexual battery (Kevin, opinions?). Also, I'm not sure if forcing new members to watch a sexualized/naked dance number could be some kind of crime. I think that might be what Ms. Rangitsch was alluding to.


Quote:
The suit alleges the Kappa House mom secretly recorded video of the "required ... ceremony" on a security camera.
Welllllll......this makes it sound like the Kappa House Mom intentionally set out a video camera in order to specifically tape this event. Or.....was it a previously installed and known security camera that has the video feed to a monitor in the house mom's suite?

Also, I wonder if the house mom is the "Kappa national agent" mentioned in the lawsuit. You know, because she's been hired by the house corporation board, therefore, she's an "agent" of the sorority. (?)


Quote:
The affidavit states a Kappa chapter advisor in her 60s and 10 chapter council members were present at the time of the ceremony, which lasted five to six minutes.
The chapter adviser was there and approved of this event????


Quote:
"This is a sad, long term pattern," the suits alleges. "Kappa knows of and even endorses many of Kappa's rituals and traditions that many people consider to be hazing."

Wellllllllll....again.......I cannot personally speak to the rituals of Kappa Kappa Gamma; but, I have a hard time believing that national Kappa Kappa Gamma Fraternity has official naked dance "rituals" or that it endorses hazing traditions. Let's not play with words here. Your chapter maybe had a secret tradition of having the seniors do a questionable performance for new members....but that doesn't mean it was ok or endorsed by the national organization. Good grief.
__________________
GFB Z
Gamma Phi Beta

True and Constant
Reply With Quote
Buy GreekChat a Coffee to help support this site, the community and the efforts that go into developing & keeping GC online. ( discuss )
  #17  
Old 03-24-2016, 07:53 PM
Sciencewoman Sciencewoman is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,418
^^^ I'm wondering if the taping was intentional, in an effort to document and put a stop to this tradition. The advisor is also named in the lawsuit, so it doesn't sound like she approved.
__________________
Gamma Phi Beta
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-24-2016, 10:06 PM
navane navane is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sciencewoman View Post
^^^ I'm wondering if the taping was intentional, in an effort to document and put a stop to this tradition. The advisor is also named in the lawsuit, so it doesn't sound like she approved.

Even if the taping was intentional, what are the grounds for a lawsuit here? "You taped me doing something criminal and/or stupid when I thought the cameras were all put away"?

__________________
GFB Z
Gamma Phi Beta

True and Constant
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-24-2016, 10:15 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Posts: 18,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by navane View Post
Even if the taping was intentional, what are the grounds for a lawsuit here? "You taped me doing something criminal and/or stupid when I thought the cameras were all put away"?

State laws vary, and that could possibly be a criminal matter.
__________________
SN -SINCE 1869-
"EXCELLING WITH HONOR"
S N E T T
Mu Tau 5, Central Oklahoma
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-25-2016, 10:45 AM
PinkSkyAtNight PinkSkyAtNight is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 48
What is described in the article is hazing, and I find it obviously doubtful that anyone on a local or national level endorsed this as a ritual.

However, I would be very curious to see what their housing contract states regarding the use of secret video monitoring and security equipment.

IF the camera was placed with the specific purpose of catching people in the act, that just makes their nationals look really bad because there are other ways to address this activity. I don't have enough information to assume either way that it was placed there specifically for this event. But if it hypothetically was, I'd be moving out once my contract was over even if I knew that I never had done anything illegal/shameful or
embarrassing. There are things I assume are private in a sorority, such as bathroom stalls and bedrooms, and IF a sorority is going to take steps to secretly tape my sisters for the purposes of addressing hazing, I'm going to assume they would be willing to film me in other venues where I have a reasonable right to privacy.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-25-2016, 01:20 PM
Alpha O Alpha O is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcsparky View Post
Maybe I'm old, but I just cannot see the value in greeting the New Members wearing only underwear.......just saying.......
I don't think that not seeing the value in this type of activity is an "old person" thing...it's a common sense thing! It's absurd that this was something anyone decided to do in the first place.
__________________
Alpha Omicron Pi
Friends as the years go by
Loving sisters are we
Loyal, forever, Alpha to thee
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-25-2016, 08:39 PM
PhilTau PhilTau is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 176
Here's my take on this. (Not intended as legal opinion or advice) I looked at two of the news stories and reading between the lines:

First, the behavior in the article was not "ritual" but likely some local tradition. How do I know? There is no way that Baylor (a Baptist university just down the road from SMU) would let the same organization on campus if it was a nationwide "ritual."

Second, the 18 seniors who got "expelled from the chapter", were likely the undergraduate officers that let this go on. The ones receiving lesser punishment from the national organization were likely just senior "indians" not the "chiefs."

Third, a big purpose of the lawsuit is likely an attempt to gain bargaining leverage to get the kids that were thrown out reinstated by the national organization which, if this happens, will likely occur sometime after the seniors' graduation. But I do not really know what "expelled from the chapter" means. Does it mean that they were thrown out of the sorority? Or does it mean that they were deactivated but still members?

Lastly, the national organization (like most) is probably just cracking down on undergraduate behavior that is inconsistent with their organization's "values" and policy. The lawsuit's weakness is lack of certain money damages. Since those on the video likely did not sign a model release and because the video may be embarrassing and may have invaded privacy, they may be successful in getting an order preventing any distribution, showing or copying of the video.

Of course, all this is just my opinion and I could be entirely wrong.

Last edited by PhilTau; 03-25-2016 at 09:44 PM. Reason: correct the number of seniors expelled and other corrections/changes
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brutal Sorority Hazing at Dartmouth-Kappa Kappa Gamma: SOM Risk Management - Hazing & etc. 32 04-12-2012 07:59 PM
Purdue Hazing Penalties for Kappa Kappa Gamma, Pi Kappa Alpha, and Lambda Phi Epsilon exlurker Risk Management - Hazing & etc. 4 03-11-2009 09:07 PM
She's a Kappa Kappa Kappa Kappa Kappa Kappa Gamma Girl... KerriMarie Kappa Kappa Gamma 13 12-23-2008 04:21 PM
Sad News: Death of a Dartmouth Kappa Kappa Gamma Member exlurker Greek Life 8 08-20-2008 10:50 PM
IU Kappa Kappa Gamma member killed in car accident Sister Havana Greek Life 2 04-12-2005 11:07 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.