"Go in with an open mind."

[TakeALook]

I understand that all PNMs are supposed to go through rush and let their hearts tell them where they belong because they fall in love with the girls and they want to be a part of their family and they feel at home and all of those wonderful things.
But how is it wrong to want to know what kind of reputation certain letters hold? I, for one, would be annoyed if I went through rush and joined a sorority that I was only so-so about (as many people will tell you to do at a big SEC school like mine) and then found out that they had been involved in a scandal a few years ago so everyone on campus now associates ABC with a lack of class. Well, awesome.
I'm just wondering why it's so bad to want to know reputations and stereotypes before getting into rush. Where is the line between being aware and closing your mind?
(This is a legitimate question and not meant to start an argument in any way.)

[jennyj87]

Originally Posted by TakeALook

I understand that all PNMs are supposed to go through rush and let their hearts tell them where they belong because they fall in love with the girls and they want to be a part of their family and they feel at home and all of those wonderful things.
But how is it wrong to want to know what kind of reputation certain letters hold? I, for one, would be annoyed if I went through rush and joined a sorority that I was only so-so about (as many people will tell you to do at a big SEC school like mine) and then found out that they had been involved in a scandal a few years ago so everyone on campus now associates ABC with a lack of class. Well, awesome.
I'm just wondering why it's so bad to want to know reputations and stereotypes before getting into rush. Where is the line between being aware and closing your mind?
(This is a legitimate question and not meant to start an argument in any way.)

It depends. Sometimes stereotypes can be very very wrong. But sometimes there is some truth to them.

When I went through recruitment as a sophomore, I had seen the other sororities interact on campus with each other and with themselves. I knew I would not fit in with the other one but I gave them the benefit of the doubt during recruitment. Maybe they had a big pow wow before recruitment and were dedicated to change.

I can understand your thought process though. But 99.9% of the time "tent talk" and stereotypes are wrong.

[Nanners52674]

Originally Posted by TakeALook

I understand that all PNMs are supposed to go through rush and let their hearts tell them where they belong because they fall in love with the girls and they want to be a part of their family and they feel at home and all of those wonderful things.
But how is it wrong to want to know what kind of reputation certain letters hold? I, for one, would be annoyed if I went through rush and joined a sorority that I was only so-so about (as many people will tell you to do at a big SEC school like mine) and then found out that they had been involved in a scandal a few years ago so everyone on campus now associates ABC with a lack of class. Well, awesome.
I'm just wondering why it's so bad to want to know reputations and stereotypes before getting into rush. Where is the line between being aware and closing your mind?
(This is a legitimate question and not meant to start an argument in any way.)

While I understand where you are coming from, I am personally of the opinion that one should make their own impressions on the chapters and not get caught up reputations/tiers etc...

Because of those beliefs I don't talk about tiers on GC.

[TakeALook]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

While I understand where you are coming from, I am personally of the opinion that one should make their own impressions on the chapters and not get caught up reputations/tiers etc...

Because of those beliefs I don't talk about tiers on GC.

Isn't it possible to be aware of the tiers and reputations and not get caught up in them? Like, if I fall in love with the "ugly, fat girl" sorority, I'm still going to join it, but I'd like to know that other people have that stereotype so that I can actively work against it. Or, if I fall in love with the top tier, big name sorority, it's probably better to know that they are so competitive so that if/when they cut me, it's not devastating, right?
There has to be a way to hear all of the tent talk and take it with multiple grains of salt.

[Nanners52674]

Originally Posted by TakeALook

Isn't it possible to be aware of the tiers and reputations and not get caught up in them? Like, if I fall in love with the "ugly, fat girl" sorority, I'm still going to join it, but I'd like to know that other people have that stereotype so that I can actively work against it. Or, if I fall in love with the top tier, big name sorority, it's probably better to know that they are so competitive so that if/when they cut me, it's not devastating, right?
There has to be a way to hear all of the tent talk and take it with multiple grains of salt.

Sure you can try and do that, but Greek Chat is not a place where you will find people telling you about tiers or reputations.

[Nanners52674]

Double post.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by TakeALook

Isn't it possible to be aware of the tiers and reputations and not get caught up in them? Like, if I fall in love with the "ugly, fat girl" sorority, I'm still going to join it, but I'd like to know that other people have that stereotype so that I can actively work against it. Or, if I fall in love with the top tier, big name sorority, it's probably better to know that they are so competitive so that if/when they cut me, it's not devastating, right?
There has to be a way to hear all of the tent talk and take it with multiple grains of salt.

I'd be shocked if you manage to go all the way through recruitment having NO idea about the stereotypes or tiers. Believe me, you'll hear plenty of garbage.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by TakeALook

I'm just wondering why it's so bad to want to know reputations and stereotypes before getting into rush. Where is the line between being aware and closing your mind?

Reputations are based on opinions and rumors. If you went into recruitment and met a group of girls who you absolutely LOOOVED, and you got along 100000% with them, would you turn your back on them if you heard that their reputation was not so stellar?

Reputations CHANGE. So you might get into the "pretty" or "OMG THEY ARE SO EFFING BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!ELEVENTY!!" sorority, and then in a year or so, you might be the "fat" sorority. Don't take stock in reps/stereotypes, they aren't worth your time.

[AZTheta]

Consider this: it works BOTH ways. Let me explain.

Had I listened to, or bought into, stereotypes/reputations, I would not have ended up where I did. To wit: I thought that there were chapters that were "too good" for me.

I went into "rush" with the attitude that I was going to have a great time, without any expectation of receiving a bid. I truly liked the women in every chapter, and they liked me back, because I kept getting invited to return. It was very difficult to have to "regret" invitations. The field narrowed and I was surprised that the two most popular chapters were actually interested in me. I was even more surprised to discover that I FIT there, comfortably. Preference was a painful decision.

And another thought: it only takes one incredible pledge class to completely turn a chapter around. I've seen it happen. So much for reputations and stereotypes.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by TakeALook

I understand that all PNMs are supposed to go through rush and let their hearts tell them where they belong because they fall in love with the girls and they want to be a part of their family and they feel at home and all of those wonderful things.
But how is it wrong to want to know what kind of reputation certain letters hold? I, for one, would be annoyed if I went through rush and joined a sorority that I was only so-so about (as many people will tell you to do at a big SEC school like mine) and then found out that they had been involved in a scandal a few years ago so everyone on campus now associates ABC with a lack of class. Well, awesome.
I'm just wondering why it's so bad to want to know reputations and stereotypes before getting into rush. Where is the line between being aware and closing your mind?
(This is a legitimate question and not meant to start an argument in any way.)

Here's the thing, reputation is almost NEVER based in facts.

99% of it is just what other people happen to THINK of ABC (not something factual that reflects badly on them and causes them to have that reputation).

It's all subjective and based in opinions which are largely based in rumor or what someone "heard."

Ex: ABC might be known as the "hot sorority" based on what some guys in one fraternity just started saying, and it just happened to catch on and be passed down through the years.

You don't want to make decisions in recruitment based on a reputation that really just comes from hearsay and opinions of others.

Also consider that at many schools, reputations change alot in the time that you are there. For example, the chapter at my undergrad that was considered the "hot girl" sorority back when I joined, is not considered that now.

[BeeBee23]

Sure, it's fine if you don't plan (or unknowingly) to use your "knowledge" to eliminate chapters before rush even starts. Even if you don't plan to do that knowing that ABC is the "fat, ugly sorority" WILL make you think negatively or be hesitant to not cut them.

Plus, any "scandals" youre talking about or could have taken place don't accurately represent the whole chapter. If a girl from XYZ got trashed and got into a bar fight and was arrested...that doesn't mean that the whole chapter would do that. Heck, theres probably at least one girl in that sorority who doesnt even drink. So wanting to know scandals and that sort of repuation isnt something I, as an active, would go around saying to PNMs because it's not an accurate portrayal. Every sorority is going to have strengths and weaknesses, and every sorority (especially on an SEC campus)is going to have members who make a mistake.

If you're honestly not worried about joining the "ugly, fat girl sorority" and you'll join if you love them...then why does it matter? Why do you need to know the reputations of the houses if you plan on accepting a bid so long as you like the house? (Unless you like a house simply because of it's spectacular top tier reputation)

[TakeALook]

You guys make a lot of excellent points.
No, I'm not going to let some girl I meet under a tent completely alter my opinion about a certain group. However, if she reiterates statements that I've heard from seven other people that ABC is full of party girls, I'm going to take that information and ask questions when I go to that house about their social events to see how much emphasis they really put on partying while, if I hadn't heard about their reputation, I probably wouldn't ask the question. If the girl started gushing about how they go out at least 5 times a week so it's always a guaranteed good time, I'm going to know that ABC isn't really my scene since I like to go out a maximum of once a week. Does that make sense?
I get the whole "it goes both ways thing" and respect it.
Also, reputation matters. I don't mean that in a "omg i lyke totes want 2 b in XYZ cuz teh frats luv them" way, but in a "I'm going to wear a shirt with my letters on it and you're going to judge me for it and I'd like to be prepared for the things you think" way. It doesn't matter whether the reputation is based of fact or entirely fabricated because those people are going to treat you according to that reputation anyway. Yes, I would disregard a less-than-excellent reputation if I loved 100% of the girls in DEF and knew it was perfect, but if I loved 60% and couldn't yet decide if I felt "at home," a reputation I'd have to battle constantly would be a factor worth considering.
Social probation is something I have never even considered. Thankfully, none of the chapters at my school will be on social probation this fall (unless they royally screw up in the next few weeks)
I fully understand and agree with giving every chapter an equal chance regardless of whatever information you may have heard about them, but I don't think seeking the information is bad if you do it properly. One of my favorite houses going into this process is a middle tier at best sorority so, while I don't really care about tiers, I want to know what they are and what the dynamics have been for the past few years (as you said, things can change). But, then again, I'm also that girl who always needs to know what time it is for absolutely no reason. I guess I just like to know things, to be aware and ready.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by TakeALook

You guys make a lot of excellent points.
No, I'm not going to let some girl I meet under a tent completely alter my opinion about a certain group. However, if she reiterates statements that I've heard from seven other people that ABC is full of party girls, I'm going to take that information and ask questions when I go to that house about their social events to see how much emphasis they really put on partying while, if I hadn't heard about their reputation, I probably wouldn't ask the question. If the girl started gushing about how they go out at least 5 times a week so it's always a guaranteed good time, I'm going to know that ABC isn't really my scene since I like to go out a maximum of once a week. Does that make sense.

Here's the thing with this scenario though.

You don't even know where those 7 people got their info from.

They could have gotten it from fraternity guys who just happen to see the same 5-10 ABCs at the bar every other day.

Or they could have gotten it from a friend who just happened to hear it from some other girl who maybe saw an ABC out at the bars drunk once or twice.

All of a sudden, ABC is the "party chapter."

You can't determine that a whole chapter parties everyday of the week based on the above info.

That's just an example of where a reputation can come from. It could be a generalization made about the whole group based on what someone heard about a group of members.

Also, even if a select group of girls DOES party a lot, that rep is hardly EVER applicable to EVERY SINGLE GIRL in ABC. You will find your share of non-partiers in any group.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Here's the thing with this scenario though.

You don't even know where those 7 people got their info from.

Exactly. Tent talk spreads like wildfire. Suzie PNM could tell people in her rush group how ABC is the "super popular thin" house, and how XYZ is the "ugly fat house" and people in her rush group are gonna believe her. Then those people will tell other PNMs and so forth. Soon more than 7 people are going to think of ABC and XYZ in those terms, regardless of how true it is or not.

You have to take it with a grain of salt. If you are going to alter your questions, do it for EVERY sorority. Ask all of them about their social events, instead of the ones that you hear reputations about...etc.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by TakeALook

You guys make a lot of excellent points.
No, I'm not going to let some girl I meet under a tent completely alter my opinion about a certain group. However, if she reiterates statements that I've heard from seven other people that ABC is full of party girls, I'm going to take that information and ask questions when I go to that house about their social events to see how much emphasis they really put on partying while, if I hadn't heard about their reputation, I probably wouldn't ask the question. If the girl started gushing about how they go out at least 5 times a week so it's always a guaranteed good time, I'm going to know that ABC isn't really my scene since I like to go out a maximum of once a week. Does that make sense?
I get the whole "it goes both ways thing" and respect it.
Also, reputation matters. I don't mean that in a "omg i lyke totes want 2 b in XYZ cuz teh frats luv them" way, but in a "I'm going to wear a shirt with my letters on it and you're going to judge me for it and I'd like to be prepared for the things you think" way. It doesn't matter whether the reputation is based of fact or entirely fabricated because those people are going to treat you according to that reputation anyway. Yes, I would disregard a less-than-excellent reputation if I loved 100% of the girls in DEF and knew it was perfect, but if I loved 60% and couldn't yet decide if I felt "at home," a reputation I'd have to battle constantly would be a factor worth considering.
Social probation is something I have never even considered. Thankfully, none of the chapters at my school will be on social probation this fall (unless they royally screw up in the next few weeks)
I fully understand and agree with giving every chapter an equal chance regardless of whatever information you may have heard about them, but I don't think seeking the information is bad if you do it properly. One of my favorite houses going into this process is a middle tier at best sorority so, while I don't really care about tiers, I want to know what they are and what the dynamics have been for the past few years (as you said, things can change). But, then again, I'm also that girl who always needs to know what time it is for absolutely no reason. I guess I just like to know things, to be aware and ready.

No, people will treat YOU for the person YOU are. Even if in the back of their heads, they are holding onto a giant generalization about ABC, none of that matters once someone meets you and gets to know you.

And how do you seek the "truth" properly? What is the truth and who knows it? Whothe boys say are the "hottest", who the non-affiliated girls say are the "sluttiest", or who the lacrosse team thinks are the "partiers"?

If you gathered all the sorority members and fraternity members, all the sports teams, all the sisters/cousins/mothers/professors who have an opinion on which sorority is the (insert stereotype here) sorority, what would the results be? I'd bet that there would be few "stand outs" in any given category. Why? Because it's all based on perspective.

The only concrete truths you have at your disposal (if they are all advertised) are things like GPA, social calendars, philanthropy projects, awards and Greek Week standings. Then again, it's just words on paper, because you are missing the key element - the people - the members themselves.

I think that enough people here have given you suggestions. You are free to find any information you want and believe it. These women are trying to help you have a successful recruitment. If you don't want to listen and think that you know the best way to approach recruitment, then why did you come here?