Non-liberal hippie gay guy hoping to join a fraternity...

[Shrapnel360]

I will be attending UNC Chapel Hill next year, and I'm really interested in joining a GOOD fraternity (I've been looking at Delta Kappa Epsilon). The only thing is...I'm gay. Now, I'm not one of those tree-hugging, flamboyant, liberal hippie gay guys who wears scarves and listens to Lady Gaga, as I'm actually a registered Republican, and really know nothing about gay "culture." I've always dressed very conservatively East-Coast, and I really know nothing about trendy fashion or hair. My idea of a good time is summering in Hilton Head or Nantucket, or going to the Carolina Cup and getting completely inebriated. I'm completely opposite of the stereotypical "gay." In fact, I've had many people tell me they didn't know I was gay until I mentioned it, albeit that's not always the case. And I'm not sure if this is relevant, but I have a very respectable GPA and SAT score, I'm going into pre-med, and I have many relatives who were/are in respected fraternities.

Now, how does my gayness hinder my chances of getting into a fraternity? I'm not interested in joining a historically "gay-friendly" fraternity, as that would probably be too liberal for me, and I've never really had much in common with other gay people, so I don't really enjoy hanging out with them (yeah...I'm going to die alone). Is there anything I should know before I rush? I know many fraternities have a reputation for being cool, particularly the ones I'm looking into, and so having a non-closeted gay guy in there might hurt their reputations. But I've also been told that it could actually give me an advantage because they think I could bring around a lot of girls (which is true).

Should I maybe not tell them I'm gay until I'm in? Or if I do, should I make it clear that I would never come on to a straight guy? I know that our generation tends to be much more open-minded about the subject than prior generations, but as I've said before, I fear that it would hurt a frat's reputation to bring in a gay guy...?

So my paragraph and sentence structure is probably horrendous in this post, but I just saw the last Harry Potter, it's four in the morning, and I'm tired...lol. So does anyone have any thoughts or advice for me? I would appreciate any opinions.

Thanks much

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Shrapnel360

I will be attending UNC Chapel Hill next year, and I'm really interested in joining a GOOD fraternity (I've been looking at Delta Kappa Epsilon). The only thing is...I'm gay. Now, I'm not one of those tree-hugging, flamboyant, liberal hippie gay guys who wears scarves and listens to Lady Gaga, as I'm actually a registered Republican, and really know nothing about gay "culture." I've always dressed very conservatively East-Coast, and I really know nothing about trendy fashion or hair. My idea of a good time is summering in Hilton Head or Nantucket, or going to the Carolina Cup and getting completely inebriated. I'm completely opposite of the stereotypical "gay." In fact, I've had many people tell me they didn't know I was gay until I mentioned it, albeit that's not always the case. And I'm not sure if this is relevant, but I have a very respectable GPA and SAT score, I'm going into pre-med, and I have many relatives who were/are in respected fraternities.

Now, how does my gayness hinder my chances of getting into a fraternity? I'm not interested in joining a historically "gay-friendly" fraternity, as that would probably be too liberal for me, and I've never really had much in common with other gay people, so I don't really enjoy hanging out with them (yeah...I'm going to die alone). Is there anything I should know before I rush? I know many fraternities have a reputation for being cool, particularly the ones I'm looking into, and so having a non-closeted gay guy in there might hurt their reputations. But I've also been told that it could actually give me an advantage because they think I could bring around a lot of girls (which is true).

Should I maybe not tell them I'm gay until I'm in? Or if I do, should I make it clear that I would never come on to a straight guy? I know that our generation tends to be much more open-minded about the subject than prior generations, but as I've said before, I fear that it would hurt a frat's reputation to bring in a gay guy...?

So my paragraph and sentence structure is probably horrendous in this post, but I just saw the last Harry Potter, it's four in the morning, and I'm tired...lol. So does anyone have any thoughts or advice for me? I would appreciate any opinions.

Thanks much

What's with the life stories on the Fraternity Rush board lately?

[MysticCat]

Quite a few people from Carolina post or read here, so with all the information you've given, your question about if and when to tell anything may be a moot point. It's already out there now.

And about looking for a "GOOD fraternity," I'll say it one more time: a good fraternity is the one where you in fit in and feel comfortable, and where the others in the chapters are brothers who accept you for you.

[DrPhil]

I'm more interested by his need to stress how different he is from "those gays."

People who identify as homosexual are a diverse subpopulation. Stop trying so hard to prove how "atypical gay" you are just because of your fashion and sociopolitical leanings. You are attracted to men, that's enough.

Power minorities feel social-psychological pressures to prove that they aren't so different from the majority; and that they aren't just like the other power minorities. Be conscious of this so that you don't set yourself up for failure and become labeled as "the insecure gay guy who really really really wants to be cool."

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I'm more interested by his need to stress how different he is from "those gays."

People who identify as homosexual are a diverse subpopulation. Stop trying so hard to prove how "atypical gay" you are just because of your fashion and sociopolitical leanings. You are attracted to men, that's enough.

Power minorities feel social-psychological pressures to prove that they aren't so different from the majority; and that they aren't just like the other power minorities. Be conscious of this so that you don't set yourself up for failure and become labeled as "the insecure gay guy who really really really wants to be cool."

Or worse, the -ist against everything that's not you and the majority you want to align yourself with.

[agzg]

[DTD Alum]

Gay registered Republicans make me sad for some reason, and this is from somebody who is about as fiscally conservative as they come (socially, whole other story). I can't imagine being an official member of a party who is actively trying to marginalize you. (I'm independent, for the record).

I agree with DrPhil...stop trying to make a show about how "different" you are. Many, many, many gay men are like that, you just assume they are heterosexual when you see them because of your narrow view. To people that are actively homophobic, it doesn't matter that you are so "different", you are still gay. To people that don't care, they don't care.

As for your actual question, I'm not from UNC Chapel Hill so I can't speak on the culture, but I went to a school in California of all places and I would say about 75% of the chapters would not be open to taking an openly gay member. It's reprehensible, but it is also a reality at many schools. The irony of course is that all these chapters had closeted members.

If you get a bid to a chapter, I'd also say take a really good look at the culture. Can you bring a boyfriend to a formal event, or are they going to expect you to bring a girl instead? Can you invite guys to a party and flirt with them, or are you expected to "hide" that behavior? Can you mention that you find Ryan Reynolds hot without getting looks of disgust? For many chapters, they may take you but then demand (either explicitly or subconsciously) that you hide your sexuality. Be careful of that.

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, at some schools you'll have no problem. Stanford, for example, has gay guys in all of their chapters, including the "Good Ol' Boy" chapters. But that's an entirely different category than a more traditional school with a large Greek life, which can tend to be stuck in the stone age.

I'm not saying that all chapters should vote in every gay guy they see, but they SHOULD be treated like everybody else. That means that they should get voted on based on their personality only, not sexuality. No exceptions. You already have them in your chapter anyway, they're just hiding.

[Barbie's_Rush]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

What's with the life stories on the Fraternity Rush board lately?

I'm starting to think that maybe these too detailed threads aren't even being written by the people they seem to be written by. Possibly they're being written by someone with a vendetta who is out to torpedo some rushes?
Or maybe the fratties are really bored this summer?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

Gay registered Republicans make me sad for some reason, and this is from somebody who is about as fiscally conservative as they come (socially, whole other story). I can't imagine being an official member of a party who is actively trying to marginalize you. (I'm independent, for the record).

I too am an Independent. Marginalization is coming from all sides. Not just the Republican side, not just the Democrat side, and not just those other sides. Marginalization wouldn't exist and persist if it was mainly about Republicans.

Plus, political parties are also diverse groups and not everyone in a political party agrees. People align themselves based on a larger idea of what works best. As a man who is most likely of the white diaspora, the OP probably finds the Republican party "protects" privileges that buffer (as far as he's concerned) marginalization based on sexual orientation. Afterall, the OP is a self-proclaimed different type of gay guy who isn't easily detected.

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

I agree with DrPhil...stop trying to make a show about how "different" you are. Many, many, many gay men are like that, you just assume they are heterosexual when you see them because of your narrow view. To people that are actively homophobic, it doesn't matter that you are so "different", you are still gay. To people that don't care, they don't care.

I agree.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Plus, political parties are also diverse groups and not everyone in a political party agrees. People align themselves based on a larger idea of what works best. As a man who is most likely of the white diaspora, the OP probably finds the Republican party "protects" privileges that buffer (as far as he's concerned) marginalization based on sexual orientation. Afterall, the OP is a self-proclaimed different type of gay guy who isn't easily detected.

I wouldn't be surprised if part of the OP's MO about this is that if he's a Republican, then it really shows how "different," "better," or "much more moral" he is than those scarf-wearing, Lady GaGa-loving gays who flock to the Democratic Party.. I've seen a number of Black Republicans do the same thing. "See, I'm not like them! I'm moral! I'm a Republican!!!!"

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I wouldn't be surprised if part of the OP's MO about this is that if he's a Republican, then it really shows how "different" or "better" he is than those other scarf-wearing, Lady GaGa-loving gays. I've seen a number of Black Republicans do the same thing. "See, I'm not like them! I'm moral! I'm a Republican!!!!"

Good point. I agree. Theyeth dotheth protesteth tooth mucheth and are as dumb as people who affiliate with political parties only because "that's what minorities do." You need to know and understand what you are affiliating with based on the info that we laypersons have access to.

[DTD Alum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I too am an Independent. Marginalization is coming from all sides. Not just the Republican side, not just the Democrat side, and not just those other sides. Marginalization wouldn't exist and persist if it was mainly about Republicans.

Marginalization certainly exists from all sides, but due to our partisan system, politicians tend to align themselves to party lines whether they believe in them or not. The Republican party line about homosexuality is fairly grim, with almost universal support for not allowing gay marriage, as well as plenty of politicians who were against the repeal of DADT. The Democratic party line is infinitely more accepting. Now whether that's genuine or not on the part of each politician is up in the air, of course.

I don't have an issue with gay people voting for a Republican candidate, but something about purposefully saying you are with the party seems to support you are with the party line, which seems to say that you are against allowing yourself to marry or serve in the army. This is especially the case since homosexual issues are such a political hot button right now, and virtually all politicians have a clear stance.

Although I agree, it's likely that the alignment with the Republican party (read: not individual Republican politicians) is a further way of showing "Look how gay we aren't! We're practically like you!" Not that that's good or a positive thing, especially since many eventually realize they are just being used as poster children and token members, and not truly accepted.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I wouldn't be surprised if part of the OP's MO about this is that if he's a Republican, then it really shows how "different," "better," or "much more moral" he is than those scarf-wearing, Lady GaGa-loving gays who flock to the Democratic Party.. I've seen a number of Black Republicans do the same thing. "See, I'm not like them! I'm moral! I'm a Republican!!!!"

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Good point. I agree. Theyeth dotheth protesteth tooth mucheth and are as dumb as people who affiliate with political parties only because "that's what minorities do." You need to know and understand what you are affiliating with based on the info that we laypersons have access to.

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

Marginalization certainly exists from all sides, but due to our partisan system, politicians tend to align themselves to party lines whether they believe in them or not. The Republican party line about homosexuality is fairly grim, with almost universal support for not allowing gay marriage, as well as plenty of politicians who were against the repeal of DADT. The Democratic party line is infinitely more accepting. Now whether that's genuine or not on the part of each politician is up in the air, of course.

I don't have an issue with gay people voting for a Republican candidate, but something about purposefully saying you are with the party seems to support you are with the party line, which seems to say that you are against allowing yourself to marry or serve in the army. This is especially the case since homosexual issues are such a political hot button right now, and virtually all politicians have a clear stance.

Although I agree, it's likely that the alignment with the Republican party (read: not individual Republican politicians) is a further way of showing "Look how gay we aren't! We're practically like you!" Not that that's good or a positive thing, especially since many eventually realize they are just being used as poster children and token members, and not truly accepted.

Hmm, interesting points but someone being gay and in the republican party shouldn't be surprising or troubling. I think it might be a case of being sick of and kicking back from the stereotype. I can't tell you all how many times I've heard minorities say/write on the radio/internet " No self respecting (fill-in-th-blank) should ever vote Republican." I have an old friend who is a staunch conservative, works for a GOP Senator, and is gay. AFAIK the Log Cabin Republican's (Gay repub group) have had quite the role in getting rid of DADT. No political party is a perfect match and every time you vote you have to pick the lesser of two evils. I actually think if the GOP focuses more on smaller gov and fiscal conservatism and leaves the "morals" at home they would attract a lot more gay voters, but nah...I don't see that happening any time soon.

-Sorry if this post makes no sense, I'm suffering from a really crappy cold and can barely type straight.

[33girl]

I am a member of the Republican party because my parents were, and because my state doesn't allow independents to vote in primary elections.

The "party line" has been shoved into place by a very vocal minority of the party. Many Republicans don't give a shit about gay marriage, abortion or any of the other hot button issues that the ultraconservative right wing of the party jumps on - or if they do give a shit, they are on the opposing side. They are Republicans because they agree with the fiscal side of what being a Republican has HISTORICALLY meant.

Don't be condescending and "sad" for someone because you think their choice of political party makes them self-hating.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I wouldn't be surprised if part of the OP's MO about this is that if he's a Republican, then it really shows how "different," "better," or "much more moral" he is than those scarf-wearing, Lady GaGa-loving gays who flock to the Democratic Party.. I've seen a number of Black Republicans do the same thing. "See, I'm not like them! I'm moral! I'm a Republican!!!!"

While that certainly could be going on, it could also just be that he grew up in a Republican family and/or naturally aligns with a more fiscally-conservative, smaller government, pro-business point of political view. Republican doesn't necessarily mean religious right or social conservative. As Dr. Phil says, political parties are diverse groups. The existence and activities of the Log Cabin Republicans attest to that. While I agree with the broader point about the implications of stressing how different the OP is from "those gays," there's nothing about being Republican that I find that inherently questionable. I agree with 33girl -- there's something almost condescending about suggesting otherwise.

As for the question he posed, my main concern is still that he's already said too much. If anybody from UNC has checked in on this thread, he's already laid everything out there -- chapters have seen what all he said about himself before meeting him and getting a chance to know him.