Texas A&M: To rush or not to rush?

[HQWest]

^^^^
Or if you were at one of those competitive schools or an elite private school, you could try for one of those scholarships at Alabama or Arkansas or Auburn and take advantage of their top notch Honors college programs.

[als463]

Originally Posted by clemsongirl

I had to look it up since I didn't know these numbers off the top of my head, but the Bridge To Clemson page says that students in this program are enrolled at Tri-County Technical College for a year and are required to complete 30 credits there before automatically being enrolled at Clemson. This phrasing makes it sound like they're not Clemson students since they take no classes at Clemson and are required to reapply for admission to Clemson if they don't meet the 30 credit requirement. In this regard I suppose Clemson's program is different from the Blinn Team program.

ETA: Found this on the Bridge Program FAQ:



I think the reason the Blinn program and others like it in the state of Texas exist is because there's state laws on the books saying that they can only accept the top X percentage of high schoolers from any high school, thus forcing still-qualified students who didn't make that percentage for whatever reason to gain acceptance through these Texas programs. I think it's a better alternative than not letting qualified applicants in to the school at all, but it probably does make their overall graduation numbers look better if they calculate them a certain way.

The Clemson program sounds just like Gamecock Gateway at University of South Carolina. I know that those students who are accepted, and it's a smaller number like 90-100, still receive the same acceptance envelope as undergraduates at USC who are accepted fully into the university with the Gamecock logo saying, "YES!" That way, it doesn't feel like an outright rejection because it isn't. The students live in the dorms, eat on campus, and also attend various campus sporting events and activities. Like you feel about Clemson, I would really like to see University of South Carolina eventually allow students in this program to go Greek because I think it would help them feel more like students.

As far as universities trying to mess with their enrollment numbers, I was under the impression that the ones in Gamecock Gateway and Clemson's Bridge Program were also top students who slightly missed out and got cut for some reason like lack of being prepared for college. I'd love to see my other alma maters do something like this also.

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by als463

The Clemson program sounds just like Gamecock Gateway at University of South Carolina. I know that those students who are accepted, and it's a smaller number like 90-100, still receive the same acceptance envelope as undergraduates at USC who are accepted fully into the university with the Gamecock logo saying, "YES!" That way, it doesn't feel like an outright rejection because it isn't. The students live in the dorms, eat on campus, and also attend various campus sporting events and activities. Like you feel about Clemson, I would really like to see University of South Carolina eventually allow students in this program to go Greek because I think it would help them feel more like students.

As far as universities trying to mess with their enrollment numbers, I was under the impression that the ones in Gamecock Gateway and Clemson's Bridge Program were also top students who slightly missed out and got cut for some reason like lack of being prepared for college. I'd love to see my other alma maters do something like this also.

But the South Carolina schools don't have a 10% rule (or something similar) like Texas, do they? Clemson and USC don't have especially rigorous admissions standards, so if those transitional students were college-ready, they would have gotten in. I would think they would not be great candidates for Greek life, and may have difficulty making it through recruitment because they may be viewed as grade risks. Or, if they did get bids, the time commitment of Greek life could derail their admissions goals.

[als463]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

But the South Carolina schools don't have a 10% rule (or something similar) like Texas, do they? Clemson and USC don't have especially rigorous admissions standards, so if those transitional students were college-ready, they would have gotten in. I would think they would not be great candidates for Greek life, and may have difficulty making it through recruitment because they may be viewed as grade risks. Or, if they did get bids, the time commitment of Greek life could derail their admissions goals.

University of South Carolina has an acceptance rate of 60.6% and Clemson has a 57.9% acceptance rate. Texas A&M has a 67.1% acceptance rate while University of Alabama accepts 53.1% and University of Texas-Austin accepts 46.8%. I'd say that University of South Carolina and Clemson are definitely on par with some of these other schools. Even other schools in the SEC like UGA (56.1% acceptance) and Tennessee (67.3% acceptance) are comparable to South Carolina while other schools in the ACC like Syracuse (51.3% acceptance) and Pitt (56.1% acceptance) are comparable to Clemson. These are all really good schools, in my mind.

I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this one irishpipes (even though you always have so much great insight on stuff). I don't think Gamecock Gateway or Clemson's Bridge students would be less attractive as members in terms of sorority recruitment. I only say this because I know the programs that are currently and being put in place for these types of students at these schools to maintain high academic standards and help retention.

[OPhiAGinger]

Although I love data, in this case those acceptance numbers don't tell the whole story. The top 10% acceptance rule is so widely publicized that I suspect Texas high school seniors who are well outside the top 10% are strongly discouraged by their guidance counselors from even applying to UT or A&M. So although TAMU's acceptance rate looks high relative to USC or Clemson, the overall pool of applicants has much higher qualifications. Again, this is just because a lot of applicants already know they don't have a snow ball's chance and don't bother to apply there.

[Hartofsec]

Around here - and by extrapolation, surely just about everywhere else - often more than 10% of the seniors in large suburban high schools have a 4.0 (often above a 4.0 if AP courses are given extra weight in the GPA). And in excess of 10% also have high college entrance scores. Example:

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2014/05/...ccept_166.html

If our state universities used a top 10% criteria, for example, many very academically strong students from these large high schools would not be admitted.


I don't know a thing about admission to Texas public universities, but having a program to buffer this reality seems like a good idea. Isn't it possible that some of the students in whatever bridge program exists have overall better academic credentials than some who were admitted to the university in question?

[als463]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

Around here - and by extrapolation, surely just about everywhere else - often more than 10% of the seniors in large suburban high schools have a 4.0 (often above a 4.0 if AP courses are given extra weight in the GPA). And in excess of 10% also have high college entrance scores. Example:

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2014/05/...ccept_166.html

If our state universities used a top 10% criteria, for example, many very academically strong students from these large high schools would not be admitted.


I don't know a thing about admission to Texas public universities, but having a program to buffer this reality seems like a good idea. Isn't it possible that some of the students in whatever bridge program exists have overall better academic credentials than some who were admitted to the university in question?

This is my thinking about the bridge programs. I will say that while advising some undergraduate students, I was shocked at how many came to college with tons of AP courses. Students actually come to college, where I am currently living, with almost a full year's worth of courses from AP. They are also involved in so much. Some of them seem to be on the brink of curing world hunger (exaggeration) and make me feel like I must have been a real slacker in high school. It sure has gotten competitive, in general, for these new undergraduate and graduate students. I don't envy them one bit. Instead, I applaud them.

[Just interested]

I think one way our more competitive private schools in Texas get around the 10% rule (now 8%, I think) is not to rank their students.
The inequity in the public school system in Texas can be dramatic and some of these students are not as well prepared for a large University experience. HIgh Schools matter when looking at potential members for this very reason. I think these programs are a way around the rules and as someone said not to lose them to out of state schools.
My Reference Board sends more references to Arkansas than to Texas Tech and they are closing in on A&M(Although A&M's numbers are WAY UP this year)

[DeltaBetaBaby]

But none of the Texas schools only admit 10%ers, do they? I know that makes up a large part of admissions, but the entire freshman class doesn't fill with them, does it?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

I don't know a thing about admission to Texas public universities, but having a program to buffer this reality seems like a good idea. Isn't it possible that some of the students in whatever bridge program exists have overall better academic credentials than some who were admitted to the university in question?

Of course they do. That's why letting BT students rush makes sense.

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

But none of the Texas schools only admit 10%ers, do they? I know that makes up a large part of admissions, but the entire freshman class doesn't fill with them, does it?

That probably depends on how many people decide they want to take advantage of the 10% rule. At some point you have to say the class is full. Those in the know - is there any sort of "if you're top 10% you have to let us know by x date" restriction?

[Just interested]

Yes,you are right. It is my understanding that that is the case at A&M and Texas. I don't know exactly how it works. It is a large part of admissions but not the be all and end all. It is good objective way to start things out similar to 1st cuts for pnms during recruitment being for grades. I have no clue how it works from there. None at all. I do know girls who are not in the top 10% do get into Texas from Dallas.

[Hartofsec]

Here is info that helps explain the Automatic Admission Law in Texas (since 2009):

http://bealonghorn.utexas.edu/freshm...atic-admission

And for those applicants admitted who did not fall under automatic admission -- the holistic review process used to fill the class:

http://bealonghorn.utexas.edu/freshmen/decisions/review

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Thanks! The 75% part was what I was curious about.

[TXGreekMom]

Originally Posted by HQWest

^^^^
Or if you were at one of those competitive schools or an elite private school, you could try for one of those scholarships at Alabama or Arkansas or Auburn and take advantage of their top notch Honors college programs.

This was our experience. Out-of-state honors programs showed real interest, and Univ of Texas did not. (Disappointing because TXGreekDad and I were both Longhorns, but in the end you want your kid to be happy, so we are learning how to be SEC parents!)

Friends of mine who are either NPC advisors or admissions staff at schools outside of Texas say their campuses and Panhellenics are all taking advantage of the influx of competitive Texas applicants. It will be interesting to see what the impact to the state is, in 5-10 years when fewer of these kids bring their educations home.

[clemsongirl]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

But the South Carolina schools don't have a 10% rule (or something similar) like Texas, do they? Clemson and USC don't have especially rigorous admissions standards, so if those transitional students were college-ready, they would have gotten in. I would think they would not be great candidates for Greek life, and may have difficulty making it through recruitment because they may be viewed as grade risks. Or, if they did get bids, the time commitment of Greek life could derail their admissions goals.

I think that some of the Bridge program students were absolutely academically ready for Clemson while others weren't. My boyfriend's younger brother got accepted to the Bridge program, and I was angry because IMO there's no reason (that I know of) that he shouldn't have been accepted to Clemson outright.

I think that if students at Clemson and USC were actually enrolled at the school, they would have a better case for being allowed to go through recruitment and placing the onus of accepting them or not on the individual chapters. Since they don't take classes at these schools during their freshman year, it's much harder to justify letting them go through recruitment at schools they're technically not matriculated at. This is the big difference between the transitional programs for students in South Carolina and the transitional programs for students in Texas.