I suicided

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Amen. And it's your whole HS class of just women that like you and want you to be a part of their group. That makes it even more likely that you'll make friends. The sheer numbers make it improbable that someone wouldn't meet like minded people in any group of that size.

Fixed your post for you

[ladybug12]

Originally Posted by maconmagnolia

For those who are anti-SIP: you'd rather Patty PNM list two chapters, one of which if she gets she will decline the bid, and therefore take a spot from Betsy PNM who would love a bid to the chapter Patty didn't want? That's just silliness.

This I agree with. And we have all probably worked with chapters where women who matched did not show up for bid day...and later when seeing the RFM report note that there were more women who preffed your group first than quota. So definately, the PNM who did not show on bid day took the spot of a woman who wanted that bid...

[33girl]

If that woman is still out there, then give her a bid! I don't get why that is so hard. If she's not still out there- as DBB said, it's usually the WRCs that have the issue with women not showing up. If they're to turn that around, they need pledge classes where the majority of women have wanted them as their first choice. Think outside the box. Bid sophomore women the chapter knows and likes. Have an open bid party and a second "mini bid day" a week later.

[DubaiSis]

I don't think anyone supports a girl listing a chapter from which she is not willing to accept a bid. If that is her position, then by all means SIP. I just get really annoyed at the woe is me posts here from the girls who had a terrible rush and what's she supposed to do now that she doesn't belong to a sorority when in fact she did have an option. And in MOST cases if she had just sucked it up she'd have ended up happy. But there is no scenario where I can accept that answer from an incoming freshman at a school with chapters of 100+ members. SIP if you want, but do NOT come here and use the didn't fit in defense. Thankfully there are some schools where the girls seem to have really figured that out and as a result the pledge classes are mammoth. But there are still some schools (and my alma mater is still guilty, but I'm hopeful this year) where far and away too many girls are not giving the WRC's enough of a chance, especially when that WRC has 100+ girls. Because really, in that case how weak is it really, and what are they really lacking?

[MaryPoppins]

When Rush Counselor's over stress maximizing PNM's options in order for the PNM to be eligible for Quota Plus: PNM who really ought to SIP puts down all her Pref Party Chapters even when she wouldn't show up if given a bid to #3 or maybe even #2. This is where Panhellenic achieving that goal of high placement rate runs in the face of the interest of the PNMs and Chapters.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

I don't think anyone supports a girl listing a chapter from which she is not willing to accept a bid. If that is her position, then by all means SIP. I just get really annoyed at the woe is me posts here from the girls who had a terrible rush and what's she supposed to do now that she doesn't belong to a sorority when in fact she did have an option. And in MOST cases if she had just sucked it up she'd have ended up happy. But there is no scenario where I can accept that answer from an incoming freshman at a school with chapters of 100+ members. SIP if you want, but do NOT come here and use the didn't fit in defense. Thankfully there are some schools where the girls seem to have really figured that out and as a result the pledge classes are mammoth. But there are still some schools (and my alma mater is still guilty, but I'm hopeful this year) where far and away too many girls are not giving the WRC's enough of a chance, especially when that WRC has 100+ girls. Because really, in that case how weak is it really, and what are they really lacking?

I've been trying to think of how to put these exact thoughts into words.

All of the above x 10!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by MaryPoppins

When Rush Counselor's over stress maximizing PNM's options in order for the PNM to be eligible for Quota Plus: PNM who really ought to SIP puts down all her Pref Party Chapters even when she wouldn't show up if given a bid to #3 or maybe even #2. This is where Panhellenic achieving that goal of high placement rate runs in the face of the interest of the PNMs and Chapters.

If they're talking about that they also need to give hard figures (i.e. out of 1000 girls bidded through QA only 25 of them got bids to their first choice chapter). This is another example of PNMs thinking they will be the one to find the needle when diving into the Grand Canyon-size haystack.

I'm also guessing the Rho Chis who do this mean well but have no idea what it's like to see a rushee walk away from their sisterhood because she's that disappointed.

[als463]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

I don't think anyone supports a girl listing a chapter from which she is not willing to accept a bid. If that is her position, then by all means SIP. I just get really annoyed at the woe is me posts here from the girls who had a terrible rush and what's she supposed to do now that she doesn't belong to a sorority when in fact she did have an option. And in MOST cases if she had just sucked it up she'd have ended up happy. But there is no scenario where I can accept that answer from an incoming freshman at a school with chapters of 100+ members. SIP if you want, but do NOT come here and use the didn't fit in defense. Thankfully there are some schools where the girls seem to have really figured that out and as a result the pledge classes are mammoth. But there are still some schools (and my alma mater is still guilty, but I'm hopeful this year) where far and away too many girls are not giving the WRC's enough of a chance, especially when that WRC has 100+ girls. Because really, in that case how weak is it really, and what are they really lacking?

I want to echo what ASTAlumna06 said earlier. I agree with this 100x over. I also love how Nanners posted a picture of Zeta Tau Alpha. That's a great visual of what some of these ladies are missing. If you SIP and take it in stride--okay. Whatever. I also agree with what everyone else is saying that they don't want Bitter Betty hanging out during Bid Day and ruining it for everyone else. I am with you all 100% on that one. I wouldn't want that. The point I was making, and it was not nearly as well put as DubaiSis and others put it, is that playing the smallest violin in the world when you make a choice like that gets under my skin. As I stated, ALL the chapters at the University of South Carolina are pretty amazing. I would have been proud to be a member of ANY of them in undergrad because Greek life in the SEC is unlike any other.

[Pamt]

I agree. As some of you know, my daughter rushed as a sophomore at UF and did not receive a bid. There are no real answers "why." A poor decision to visit a a frat house to see friends or the fact that she's a sophomore? A solid GPA (3.6) but not as high as other sophomores? Who knows. I DO know that she was prepared to accept a bid at ANY house whether she loved the house during rush or not. She could have left during the next few weeks if she truly didn't like it but I'm betting that would not have happened.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by MaryPoppins

When Rush Counselor's over stress maximizing PNM's options in order for the PNM to be eligible for Quota Plus: PNM who really ought to SIP puts down all her Pref Party Chapters even when she wouldn't show up if given a bid to #3 or maybe even #2. This is where Panhellenic achieving that goal of high placement rate runs in the face of the interest of the PNMs and Chapters.

I know many girls who were pushed--yes, pushed--into listing a chapter they didn't want on their card. There are different ways Pi Chis do this,from shaming them to telling them their card will get kicked out of the computer if they SIP to doing a heavy emotional number on them about how horrible they'll feel on Bid Day if everyone else is celebrating and they aren't.

There are no doubt several examples of girls who got their last choice and loved it after all. This is not what I'm seeing here. The ones I see most often went to Bid Day and tried to fake happiness but in a year or less left the chapter. Others resigned before initiation or never showed up for Bid Day.

Most who could re-rush did and got other bids the next year--particularly this year, even at SEC schools. There were various reasons that these PNMs did what they did.

However, it is *wrong* of Pi Chis to badger a PNM into listing a chapter she obviously doesn't want, especially if it involves lies like "the computer will spit out your card". If the PNM SIPs and gets the call, that's on her. But Pi Chis, if you harass or lie to a PNM and she gets the chapter she can't stand and is bound for a year--that's on YOU.

[pinksequins]

Thank you, Carnation. Along with DGTess, please allow these women to make the choices they believe are correct for them (whether we personally agree or not). It is one of many they will need to make in life.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by carnation

I know many girls who were pushed--yes, pushed--into listing a chapter they didn't want on their card. There are different ways Pi Chis do this,from shaming them to telling them their card will get kicked out of the computer if they SIP to doing a heavy emotional number on them about how horrible they'll feel on Bid Day if everyone else is celebrating and they aren't.

There are no doubt several examples of girls who got their last choice and loved it after all. This is not what I'm seeing here. The ones I see most often went to Bid Day and tried to fake happiness but in a year or less left the chapter. Others resigned before initiation or never showed up for Bid Day.

Most who could re-rush did and got other bids the next year--particularly this year, even at SEC schools. There were various reasons that these PNMs did what they did.

However, it is *wrong* of Pi Chis to badger a PNM into listing a chapter she obviously doesn't want, especially if it involves lies like "the computer will spit out your card". If the PNM SIPs and gets the call, that's on her. But Pi Chis, if you harass or lie to a PNM and she gets the chapter she can't stand and is bound for a year--that's on YOU.

Coming out of lurkerdom to say that this is the best thing I've read on this topic.

[AZTheta]

Amen.

[clemsongirl]

Originally Posted by carnation

I know many girls who were pushed--yes, pushed--into listing a chapter they didn't want on their card. There are different ways Pi Chis do this,from shaming them to telling them their card will get kicked out of the computer if they SIP to doing a heavy emotional number on them about how horrible they'll feel on Bid Day if everyone else is celebrating and they aren't.

There are no doubt several examples of girls who got their last choice and loved it after all. This is not what I'm seeing here. The ones I see most often went to Bid Day and tried to fake happiness but in a year or less left the chapter. Others resigned before initiation or never showed up for Bid Day.

Most who could re-rush did and got other bids the next year--particularly this year, even at SEC schools. There were various reasons that these PNMs did what they did.

However, it is *wrong* of Pi Chis to badger a PNM into listing a chapter she obviously doesn't want, especially if it involves lies like "the computer will spit out your card". If the PNM SIPs and gets the call, that's on her. But Pi Chis, if you harass or lie to a PNM and she gets the chapter she can't stand and is bound for a year--that's on YOU.

Completely agree, and this is why at Clemson the Pi Chis are not involved in the final ranking of groups after preference. Professional staff members who may or may not be in GLOs but are not allowed to disclose either way read the MRABA and explain it the the PNMs. They also provide counseling for girls who can't decide how to rank or whether to list a chapter.

[tcsparky]

Originally Posted by clemsongirl

Completely agree, and this is why at Clemson the Pi Chis are not involved in the final ranking of groups after preference. Professional staff members who may or may not be in GLOs but are not allowed to disclose either way read the MRABA and explain it the the PNMs. They also provide counseling for girls who can't decide how to rank or whether to list a chapter.

I am doing this tomorrow morning at UNCC. Alumnae women from organizations not on campus man the computers for final ranking after Pref. We read and explain the MRABA, listen to them, counsel them.....we don't have chapters on the campus, so we don't "have a dog in the fight." Those of us actively involved in Alumnae Panhellenic know which is the WRC, but we also know that some people go there willingly and love it. We are as impartial and unbiased as it is possible to be, other than we encourage them to Go Greek!!!

Every year I have one or two women who decide not to sign rather than join the one group they have left. Most, however, are at least willing to give it a try.