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  #31  
Old 07-03-2020, 05:52 PM
Jen Jen is offline
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But they aren't just introducing those girls - they're introducing every PNM. The small-town/out-of-state girls are still lost in the shuffle.



I feel recs went from being a way to introduce someone special to the chapter to something everyone has to have, therefore rendering them useless.
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  #32  
Old 07-03-2020, 05:57 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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You're right about what many people call fake recs--the ones they get off of strangers on the Internet. However, the real recs, which are kind of easy to pick out really do help to introduce the small town girls. That's often the only way they get noticed in a crowd.
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  #33  
Old 07-03-2020, 07:21 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Originally Posted by AOII Rose View Post
In this case, the latter group (with connections and recs) is more likely to be composed of white women whose families have gone to college. While the former group is more likely to be composed of first-time college students who don't know NPC sorority women, and I would also think that POCs would be more likely to fall into that group.
Disagree. I have found that many PNMS of all colors disregard the best source of all for recs--their teachers. For some reason, it doesn't even occur to them that their teachers might have gone to college.

Sorority alum teachers in this town and surrounding ones make a big point of searching for girls who might want to rush NPC groups and making sure they have the recs they need. Yes, for girls of all colors and there are many. They also publicize the benefits of Greek membership.

I find that girls who are first-in-the-family college students have researched the activities, among other things, at their colleges far more than others have. They take the initiative and ask for advice.
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  #34  
Old 07-03-2020, 08:05 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Originally Posted by AOII Rose View Post
Now I realize that some NPC groups on my campus had alumnae writing recs in a back room because PNMs at my school typically don't get recs (unless it's to introduce them to their legacy group).
Sigghhh...AOII Rose, most of the regular members here are highly educated. We have members of various professions--medical, legal, educational--and we don't need to be schooled on what recs are for or how people get them. Most of us work closely with our organizations or Panhellenic. We know our stuff.

Of course, there are alums in the back who will write recs for someone they really, really want. Great girls will not be overlooked. Before that, though, an alum has probably met or found out about a great girl from her recruitment application and has been put on the trail of finding a rec for her, probably from her school.

Never mind us, though, we'll be sitting down here on our porches in classist and racist ignorance like the hillbillies you think we are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsC4kf6x_Q0
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  #35  
Old 07-03-2020, 08:52 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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That's right, you should. Bye.
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  #36  
Old 07-03-2020, 09:02 PM
robinseggblue robinseggblue is offline
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What just happened? Why did AOII Rose's posts disappear?
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  #37  
Old 07-03-2020, 09:08 PM
SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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  #38  
Old 07-03-2020, 09:15 PM
SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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I don't know whether she was banned or flounced. And we have no way of knowing if she was given a warning or not, or what her conversations with moderators might have been.

ETA - Apparently she was banned. So, who wants in on when a "new" member appears?

EATA - Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
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  #39  
Old 07-03-2020, 10:50 PM
DGTess DGTess is offline
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We might also do well to remember that the Alabamas and Texases are the minority of campuses with greek life. To make a policy because "it can't be done at 'Bama" rings elitist to me.

The other thing I have always been proud of, and that Delta Gamma doesn't make as big a deal of as I wish it would, is that membership selection is a responsibility reserved to collegians. It's a big responsibility, and *real* information can't hurt. Irrelevant information abounds, though.
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  #40  
Old 07-07-2020, 07:24 PM
AnchorAlumna AnchorAlumna is offline
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Somewhere in the back of my mind, I seem to recall that recs were one of the keys to sororities and fraternities being allowed to remain single sex organizations.
Can anyone quote a solid source for that? Or know any different?
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  #41  
Old 07-09-2020, 07:34 PM
NinjaPoodle NinjaPoodle is offline
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Noooooottt just anyone. Each of our organizations have their own requirements, but Iím confident we all require more than one letter of rec. Put it this way, additional letters may be required to verify other things...but a letter(s) from an active member(s) is one that is common across the board.
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  #42  
Old 08-17-2020, 04:48 PM
robinseggblue robinseggblue is offline
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While chapter specific letters of recommendation are preferred, for women unable to find an alumna from each of the recognized sororities at UA to write a letter of rec, we have added a new option to the recruitment application. This year as part of the recruitment application, women participating in recruitment may elect to submit a generic, supplemental academic letter of recommendation from a teacher, guidance counselor, or principal. The individual writing the letter of recommendation does not have been a member of Greek organization; however, the letter should speak to your character as it applies to leadership, scholarship, community service, and friendship. Please note that this is an optional feature and as such, is not a required part of the online application form. The weight given to these Supplemental Academic Letters of Recommendation is up to each chapter’s discretion.
I have been following Bama's 2020 recruitment and incidentally saw this on their Panhellenic website. (Emphasis in the quoted text is mine.)

I think it's a great way to be more inclusive with regard to rec letters. I'm sure that within a couple of years, sororities will figure out how to weigh the letters accordingly. I'm glad to see that things are moving on this front.

I'm personally of the opinion that having a generic academic letter from someone who knows you is waaaaaaay better than having a generic letter from an alum you met just to fill the rec letter requirement.
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  #43  
Old 08-18-2020, 01:00 AM
AnchorAlumna AnchorAlumna is offline
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Strictly speaking, since my sorority requires that a member (alum or collegian) write a rec for a PNM before she's invited to pref, a "generic" rec from a non-member isn't even worth the paper it's written on.

Some people think you have to personally know the PNM to write a rec. No, you don't. Look...a rec is about character and personality. The chapter already has the list of activities, the awards and honors.

What they need to know are things like does this girl tell the truth? Is she dependable? Is she kind to others? Does she enjoy pushing people around? Like to cause drama? Is she a hypochondriac? Is she shy? Maybe the reason her grades are a little low is that she was really sick her entire sophomore year...that title she won as Top Camper is more of an honor than you might realize.

And I don't have to personally know her. I can get that info from someone else. Maybe I know someone who goes to her church, or coaches her team, or who drove her carpool in 9th grade.

It's not the good girls we need to know about. It's the bad ones. And frankly, it's a crap shoot. I've seen girls with sterling recs turn out to be ones whose goal was to sleep with the entire football team, or who are so bedazzled by their pot-dealing boyfriend they ruin the reputation of the entire chapter. Or one that a chapter could have easily found an alum who might have warned them that this NM has major mental problems, found after she took a knife to a classmate. Even with recs, you never really know.
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  #44  
Old 08-18-2020, 01:01 AM
AnchorAlumna AnchorAlumna is offline
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We used to never ask a PNM to find a rec. That was the chapter's job.
But when you have 2200 PNMs, you could have a crew of 30 working 24/7 all summer long and not be able to find recs on all of them. Asking PNMs to find recs helps.

BTW, it's pretty easy to see that a rec writer doesn't really know anything about the PNM.
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  #45  
Old 08-18-2020, 05:15 AM
robinseggblue robinseggblue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna View Post
Strictly speaking, since my sorority requires that a member (alum or collegian) write a rec for a PNM before she's invited to pref, a "generic" rec from a non-member isn't even worth the paper it's written on.
My sorority has basically the same requirement and I disagree. I mean, sure, this type of recommendation isn't worth it to the sorority who requires the rec to be from an alumna.

However, the content of a rec from a non-member can still be extremely valuable. And that's what I'm referring to when I say that I think sororities will figure out how to weigh these recommendations.

I'm sure each organization will do it differently. Perhaps some will continue to disregard the content of the non-alumnae recommendations. Perhaps some will use the content of the non-alumnae recommendations to have an alumna write a recommendation for a PNM they really like. Perhaps some will change their internal policies to allow for PNMs to have a recommendation from a non-alumna.

I have no idea how this will go, but I do personally think that this is a good step forward in terms of decreasing the variance in quality of recommendation content received based on PNM connections.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna View Post
Some people think you have to personally know the PNM to write a rec. No, you don't. Look...a rec is about character and personality. The chapter already has the list of activities, the awards and honors.

What they need to know are things like does this girl tell the truth? Is she dependable? Is she kind to others? Does she enjoy pushing people around? Like to cause drama? Is she a hypochondriac? Is she shy? Maybe the reason her grades are a little low is that she was really sick her entire sophomore year...that title she won as Top Camper is more of an honor than you might realize.

And I don't have to personally know her. I can get that info from someone else. Maybe I know someone who goes to her church, or coaches her team, or who drove her carpool in 9th grade.
I don't disagree with most of the content of what you've written in your posts, I just disagree on who can write a valuable recommendation. After college, I used to work on the admissions side of higher education and I've also had the privilege of writing recommendations for my sorority for people I did and didn't know.

You're basically saying that if you don't personally know the PNM, you still have to know someone you trust who does personally know the PNM to write a reliable rec. If a PNM has a 2nd degree connection like that, then IMO that is the obviously the person to go to for the rec. However, not everyone has that type of connection.

A teacher or guidance counselor who knows the PNM well would also be the person to know these types of things about the PNM. Both of these positions involve people who observe a lot while students are in school or supervising their after-school activities. Teachers and guidance counselors also have lots of experience writing recommendations for students to college.

College admissions offices are certainly looking for recommendations about a student's character and not simply regurgitation of a resume that is already on the college application. Sure, some applicants get recommendations from teachers who do not know them, but those aren't considered strong recommendations.

If someone doesn't have 1st or 2nd degree connection to sorority alumnae, I still think that having a teacher/coach/guidance counselor who knows them personally write a rec is much more valuable in terms of finding out the PNM's character.

Also, having more sources for quality recommendations would help sororities be more inclusive. This is a seemingly unpopular opinion on GreekChat, but I do believe that WOC are more disadvantaged by the necessity to get recommendations for some NPC organizations and/or some campuses.
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