GreekChat.com Forums  

Go Back   GreekChat.com Forums > General Chat Topics > News & Politics


Register Now for FREE!
Join GreekChat.com, The Fraternity & Sorority Greek Chat Network. To sign up for your FREE account INSTANTLY fill out the form below!

Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail:
 
Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

  I agree to forum rules 

» GC Stats
Members: 325,126
Threads: 115,503
Posts: 2,196,056
Welcome to our newest member, babobygooglet93
» Online Users: 922
0 members and 922 guests
No Members online
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 06-07-2001, 07:44 AM
moe.ron moe.ron is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Southeast Asia
Posts: 9,023
Send a message via AIM to moe.ron
Post

I do not belive in the death penalty because I don't believe in the fairness and accuracy of our judicial process.

------------------
New York Eta #323
Buffalo State '99
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-07-2001, 09:15 AM
AXO Alum AXO Alum is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: southeast of disorder
Posts: 3,211
Exclamation

Not only am I 100% for the death penalty, I am 100% for the death being carried out in the same manner that the criminal (shocking word isn't it!) killed his/her victim! Some fool here robbed a woman who was 8+ months pregnant -- he hit her in the head repeatedly, and she died a very slow death, and also the death of the child (whom the doctors determined was viable at that point) - where is he now? Sitting in the state pen for "life" -- which we all know is 25 years plus time served for "good" behavior. He has access to better recreational equipment than some of our city parks have to offer -- he has food 3 times a day plus the opportunity to buy cigarettes not to mention access to cable tv and a library -- and even the internet.

I volunteer for a battered women's shelter, and there are women and children there who by absolutely no fault of their own struggle to live each day with what the shelter can provide while the real criminal is locked up at a Motel 6! Someone please please please tell me where the justice is there?

And what the hell is up with PAYING them to do work for the community? I don't care if its a nickel on the hour -- why am I paying them for a crime they committed? A professor once asked me, when she learned how strongly I favor the death penalty, "Could you pull the switch?" -- My answer -- YES! Without a moment's hesitation. (and most of you know that I am a vegetarian and animal rights advocate so I'm not some looney on the loose wanting to kill things) -- Timothy McVeigh -- I'd be more than happy to do the honors and not blink. Susan Smith (SC mom who drowned her 2 young sons by strapping them in their car seats and driving them into a lake because her "boyfriend" didn't want to be tied down to children) -- please let me strap her in a car and drive her in a lake -- that's what she deserves.

My cousin, at 2 years old, was killed by a drunk driver - the driver got a $75 fine and a few hours community service --- that's it. She also went on to be involved in another incident also killing someone else -- no jail time. I would love to put her in a car, and hit her with such force that her head is almost completely removed from her body the way Becky's was.

But you're right -- that woman didn't do anything wrong and she must have really learned after that whopping $75 fine since she went out and killed someone else.

I don't care about cost -- the cost of a life cannot ever ever ever be compared to the cost of keeping someone alive or executing them. The real "cost" is to the families and friends who have lost everything because some idiot was stupid enough to "play God" him/her self and take a life. I think that the best prison I've ever seen documented is the one that Woody Harrelson's father is in -- they are in solitary lock-up 23 hours a day, with one hour solitary exercise. As for rapes and brutal beatings in prison? Cry me a freaking river --
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-08-2001, 01:37 PM
Rudey Rudey is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Taking lessons at Cobra Kai Karate!
Posts: 14,928
Lightbulb

If I wasn't so tired, I'd fix the way I wrote but no time, so enjoy:


Quote:
Originally posted by AXO Alum:
Not only am I 100% for the death penalty, I am 100% for the death being carried out in the same manner that the criminal (shocking word isn't it!) killed his/her victim!

That's why you weren't elected to such a position. However should you feel your radical views are right, then you might want to look into what the Taliban has in terms of employment.


Some fool here robbed a woman who was 8+ months pregnant -- he hit her in the head repeatedly, and she died a very slow death, and also the death of the child (whom the doctors determined was viable at that point) - where is he now? Sitting in the state pen for "life" -- which we all know is 25 years plus time served for "good" behavior.

Yes, I do love the "We all know" statements. We all know is what an ignorant uneducated person says. I don't want to sound harsh (and I know you're going to think I'm a jerk) but until you start looking at statistics on crime sentences and the percentage of life sentences reduced to such a low number, please don't tell me what "We all know". That is what you think...not know...and not something "we" all think.

He has access to better recreational equipment than some of our city parks have to offer -- he has food 3 times a day plus the opportunity to buy cigarettes not to mention access to cable tv and a library -- and even the internet.

Spoken like an amateur politician. I guarantee that you won't feel this way if you take a tour of the jail and do some more research. And the parks with bad recreational facilities, are they in your neighborhood or would they more likely be located in a high crime area? He has food 3 times a day? God forbid such a thing. I can't imagine anyone getting food 3 times a day. And the opportunity to buy cigarettes? Key word being buy. Yes he sure does. That's his money, not yours. Cable tv? Cute. Let me guess they all watch Sex in the city right? A library? The library is there for 2 reasons. 1) To help a prisoner plan his own defense through knowledge of legal statutes and 2) Education so when that kid who made a stupid mistake of stealing something can rehabilitate himself. The internet? Yeah, I'm sure all the cells have T1 connections. You obviously think that prisoners are allowed to roam freely. Having an hour to see the sun each day would be more like it.

I volunteer for a battered women's shelter, and there are women and children there who by absolutely no fault of their own struggle to live each day with what the shelter can provide while the real criminal is locked up at a Motel 6! Someone please please please tell me where the justice is there?

Once again, I'd like to see what you are basing this on. Don't tell me you heard it in the news. Show me a hard fact that prison is like the "Motel 6". You're not fulling benefiting from volunteer work if that's the only conclusion you could come up with.

And what the hell is up with PAYING them to do work for the community? I don't care if its a nickel on the hour -- why am I paying them for a crime they committed?

Such a statement...you'd think you would try to understand something before you blast it away. They work for private enterprises generally. And if, very iffy if, they were allowed to work for the community, why shouldn't they? I guess the applications to help fix something with my community have soared this year and nobody can get a job. Let me guess, these prisoners all have high paying IT jobs. They make $1/hr and beg to work because life in jail is so hard.

A professor once asked me, when she learned how strongly I favor the death penalty, "Could you pull the switch?" -- My answer -- YES! Without a moment's hesitation.

Wow. Good for you. I draw 2 conclusions from this. 1) You have some serious problems. and 2) This is the more probable one: You talk the talk, but I doubt you would do anything more than talk. And if you did, I'm sure you would regret doing it and never do it again. I'd be willing to bet a good deal of money on this one but unfortunately there'd be no way to test you out.

(and most of you know that I am a vegetarian and animal rights advocate so I'm not some looney on the loose wanting to kill things) -

Animal rights people kill. Animal rights people destroy millions of dollars in property because they feel their opinions are the right ones. But anyway, maybe you should examine why you care for animals...why you're a vegetarian. Look deep. If you can answer this in 5 minutes, you're not looking deep enough.

- Timothy McVeigh -- I'd be more than happy to do the honors and not blink. Susan Smith (SC mom who drowned her 2 young sons by strapping them in their car seats and driving them into a lake because her "boyfriend" didn't want to be tied down to children) -- please let me strap her in a car and drive her in a lake -- that's what she deserves.

My cousin, at 2 years old, was killed by a drunk driver - the driver got a $75 fine and a few hours community service --- that's it. She also went on to be involved in another incident also killing someone else -- no jail time. I would love to put her in a car, and hit her with such force that her head is almost completely removed from her body the way Becky's was.

But you're right -- that woman didn't do anything wrong and she must have really learned after that whopping $75 fine since she went out and killed someone else.

I can't tell you how much I am sorry about this. There is no way for someone to even express the pain and emotions resulting from the loss of life...

I don't care about cost -- the cost of a life cannot ever ever ever be compared to the cost of keeping someone alive or executing them. The real "cost" is to the families and friends who have lost everything because some idiot was stupid enough to "play God" him/her self and take a life. I think that the best prison I've ever seen documented is the one that Woody Harrelson's father is in -- they are in solitary lock-up 23 hours a day, with one hour solitary exercise. As for rapes and brutal beatings in prison? Cry me a freaking river --

Now let's all play God. Not only is playing "God" not something you can do my mortal friend, but sometimes playing "God" leads to mistakes. There are already so many cases of innocent men who were found guilty and executed. As I said in my earlier post, I'm allowed to hold you guilty over their deaths and sentence you to a similar sentence for supporting such a thing...no?

I am very sorry that I came off as so offensive in this post. Please forgive me for that...I never meant it. But I don't think you've seen one person die. I don't think you've ever seen a murder. I don't think you've ever seen a war. I think you live a very sheltered life where presumptions beginning with "We all now" are all too easy to make. You are entitled to your opinions just as much as a prisoner is entitled to his rights as a human being though...so take advantage of that. You may however want to hold off on your opinions until you get certain facts straight.

I'm done ranting.

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-08-2001, 02:35 PM
AXO Alum AXO Alum is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: southeast of disorder
Posts: 3,211
Exclamation

First of all - I am not a sick person with some serious problems -- you come on here accusing me of not knowing the "facts" and then you turn around and do some assuming of your own...hypocrite -- look it up.

Secondly - Thank you for telling me what I am / or am not getting out of my volunteer work -- where would I be without people who don't know me and don't have a clue as to what I do for the women and children with whom I work, telling me what I do or don't get from it?

Third - your quote: "He has food 3 times a day? God forbid such a thing. I can't imagine anyone getting food 3 times a day." -- God forbid that people get to LIVE and not be MURDERED. I can't imagine anyone getting to live without some jerk who goes out and robs a store, killing the clerk, and then bases his defense on his mother didn't love him enough or some $#%@ like that!

Fourth -- I HAVE taken jail tours. I do have friends who work in the system. I know people who have been in jail. I have done the research - I actually have a Master's Degree, and one of the fields that I could have chosen was the prison system, so I had to do my research before making my career choice -- but then you and your ASSumptions wouldn't have known that, would you?

Fifth - I don't have anything in my neighborhood - I live in the country/sticks/boondocks -- call it what you will. The recreational facilities in the high crime areas are actually pretty nice - the higher-ups think that giving them an outlet for their "anger" will help lower the crime rate. Good argument on their behalf, I suppose, but I haven't had the chance to research that issue.

Sixth - when I mentioned buying cigarettes, and you said that's his money, not mine -- care to rethink that?? Hmmm - he's on a vacation on the taxpayer dollar (FIGURE of speech - please don't freak out on this one like you did the other...to be discussed next) and yet its still his money? No - its my money as a taxpayer. And as for them working? I don't care that they only make $1 an hour - that money should be going right back to pay the taxpayers for the cost of their incarceration. Why should I be paying for the crime that they chose to commit? You haven't answered that one yet.

Seventh - okay okay okay -- I forget that everyone on here in every single post always uses the exact correct terminology to discuss every little item...the "we all know" statement is an error on my part. God forbid that I would have stepped out with a figure of speech that would be taken so literally. I am eternally sorry for my use of common terminology -- but you can better believe I'll be watching out for the minute that you yourself cross the line and use any kind of statement out of general speech without complete and absolute knowledge and presence of fact.

Eigth - I am an animal rights ADVOCATE -- not ACTIVIST -- look it up. I don't support PETA because I do not support their ideals of destroying property, turning lab animals loose, blocking the roads so employees can't work, etc. -- I always make dang sure that I put the word "advocate" in there and not "activist" -- there is a difference! Thanks for noticing -- oops -- you didn't!

And yes - I do think the tone of this is that you are being a jerk because this whole time you have accused me of being presumptious, and making assumptions out of left field, but then you turn around and do it right back to me. You tell me what you "think" I've not seen -- what kind of life you "think" I lead -- how can it be okay for you to tell me what I don't know, but then turn around and say the same things to me? Unless I am mistaken, I don't know you -- I simply came on here stating my opinion. MINE - as in me, myself, and I based on what I personally know (and as I've said before, my opinion is the only one that I personally know so therefore I can only base my statements of opinion on them -- sounds like lawyer talk, huh?)

Oh, and lest I forget -- MURDERERS lose their "RIGHT" to being treated like a human, when they take away someone elses right to live.

The topic was started with "what are your views? For or against?" -- I stated that -- MY views -- and I don't think (thinking - as in my opinion) that just because someone disagrees with them (which is fine -- its fine to have your own opinion) that gives them the right to come bash me and make assumptions about my life.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-08-2001, 02:42 PM
SuperXO SuperXO is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: CA, USA
Posts: 198
Post

Rudey,
In one place you state the prisoners are cheap labor for the governement, then (when it suits you better, I presume) you state that they work for private companies generally.

I think you are projecitng a lot of things onto someone you don't know. For instance, maybe she has seen people die. Have you? Have you been in a war? I am interested to know!

And just because someone believes in Animal Rights, does not mean they are a member of PETA or similar organizations. There are many organizations that peacefully and lawfully protect the rights of animals.

Who are you to say that someone has problems if they want revenge. Psychologically, this is very normal...not "problems" at all. You wouldn't happen to be trying to play god in your judgement, now would you??

I have no idea whether your facts about prisons are accurate. Nor am I going to take my time to verify your facts. I do know that while you ridicule the value of 3 meals a day, that is something many people do not find so easy. So, I think they are still treated too well. but, we'd have to redefine or change the Constitution that prevents cruel or unusual punishment. I think we should say it's not allowed unless the person murdered or rape in which case, they MAY be cruelly punished!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-08-2001, 03:47 PM
SuperXO SuperXO is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: CA, USA
Posts: 198
Post

well, Rudey, I WASN'T going to check your stats, or anyone else who says cap. pun. doesn't deter criminals or save lives, BUT, I just happened to be reading Fox news.com and ran into this article. Check it out.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,26686,00.html

Although it is a controversial study, it looks like they have lots of data and the main opponent to it is the pres. of a coalition to end cap. pun. Hmm, no surprise there, of course he'll say whatever to make the study look bad.

Anyway, there is some very interesting evidence about capital punsihment saving lives!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-08-2001, 10:54 PM
Lil_G Lil_G is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 758
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by SuperXO:
well, Rudey, I WASN'T going to check your stats, or anyone else who says cap. pun. doesn't deter criminals or save lives, BUT, I just happened to be reading Fox news.com and ran into this article. Check it out.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,26686,00.html

Although it is a controversial study, it looks like they have lots of data and the main opponent to it is the pres. of a coalition to end cap. pun. Hmm, no surprise there, of course he'll say whatever to make the study look bad.

Anyway, there is some very interesting evidence about capital punsihment saving lives!
I'm confused, what are the variables involved with this quantitative analysis? Is there more to the study than on the main page? Exactly how does it save lives, I couldn't find any explanation.

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-09-2001, 02:43 AM
Rudey Rudey is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Taking lessons at Cobra Kai Karate!
Posts: 14,928
Post

AXOalum, two things. The first is an apology. I did talk in a bad tone towards you. Please understand I didn't mean that. You were more than entitled to your view, and I think because I had a stressful week with finishing off my classes, I did act abnormally. So once again, please accept my apology. The second thing I wanted to say is that I think you misinterpreted a lot of what I said. I wouldn't doubt your compassion and care shown through volunteering. I wouldn't doubt your intelligence. I sounded like an ass the way that I talked to you...I know. I apologized for that though so can we put this all aside and in the past? Oh...and honestly, please don't look for general statements in my posts. I apologized so no animosity, if you'd like to forgive me. And if you are really interested in talking about this whole issue, I'd be more than happy to do so through email. But once again, I apologize.

SuperXO, I'll respond to what you had to say item by item.
1) PrisonBlues is a private company that hires prisoners to work for them and make denimwear. The labor is very cheap. How does the government benefit? Most of PrisonBlues sales are to the government. Hence both the government and private enterprises benefit. Does this make sense? I don't want you to think I was just switching info around to attack someone.
2) I witnessed 2 wars by the time I was 7 in two separate countries. I did make some assumptions when talking about witnessing the loss of life, but only because most people are furtonate enough not to have.
3) I gave my interpretation of someone with those feelings but not only did I give 2 but I said the second was more probable. I don't think that feelings of anger are abnormal. And I gae my interpretation, not my judgement. Playing God refers to determining whether someone lives or dies not just judging, and definitely not interpreting.
4) My intention in regards to the 3 meals a day statement: Everyone is entitled to this. I know some people aren't fortunate enough to find one meal a day, but it doesn't mean they shouldn't be entitled to basic human rights. If you are really intent on finding statistics, I will dig them up for you and email them to you. Just realize that I don't make connections between an increase in capital punishment and a decrease in crime. I have absolutely no idea about such a topic and wouldn't dare to venture a guess even. I will find statistics on how many people are executed every year, the demographics of those executed, possibly stats on early release for those who commit first degree murder, etc.

But I'd just like to apologize once more, and to say I won't discuss this further on this forum. Cool?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-09-2001, 09:24 PM
Miami1839 Miami1839 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 1,054
Post

Wow. I think I need to read this forum two more times. LOL Yeah, I think we could all use a laugh. Why dont we work some kind of deal with Australia and see if they'd relocate to the US or back to England. Hey we could ship all of our criminals out there. At least the ones that are not on death row. Then we could bring back the gallows and the guillotine and go to town on the rapists, child molesters, and murderers. Think of some of those Reality based shows(Like the new show supposed to air on NBC where people are supposed to get covered with rats, snakes and such?) for those of you that think that hangings of death row inmates would be in bad taste. How much worse will T.V. get anyway. (By the way, I am JOKING) LOL

[This message has been edited by Miami1839 (edited June 09, 2001).]
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-10-2001, 12:04 AM
KillarneyRose KillarneyRose is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Naptown
Posts: 6,608
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Rudey:

To this day other countries that do use the death penalty such as China condemn us for killing children. Sometimes when everyone in the world is telling you something, you may want to re-examine your policies.
I don't want to hurt the feelings of anyone on either side of this argument but this quote really gave me pause. We are supposed to take human rights lessons from CHINA?????

Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-10-2001, 01:40 AM
DGPhoney DGPhoney is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,075
Thumbs down

Hey all
Aganist It
I feel as though 2 wrongs don't make a right. Who's to say who's the judge to take someone's life? Whether or not it was a crime or whether it's done by a court of law.
What example are we setting by killing another. Now two lives are gone. I know many will disagree with me but it's just how I think.
It's like we go in one big circle, I kill you therefore someone else kills me. If the death penalty was making major changes in the world and the way people think. Then why is it we still have crime, murder, thieves, and other such acts?

DGPhoney~
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-10-2001, 11:11 AM
SilverBug SilverBug is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 15
Angry

I don't think Capital Punishment is right. It has happened that people have been wrongly accused. I know this is not the case with Timothy McVeigh. He WANTS to be executed. His shouldn't get what he wants. Do you think that those people who died in the bombing wanted to be killed? NO. They should just lock him up and throw away the key. Let him rot! Or send him to The Pit in Europe. That's even better. He doesn't deserve to get what he WANTS. He is one of the lowest forms of life in the world. Anyone can disagree with me if they want to, I don't care.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-10-2001, 11:13 AM
Miami1839 Miami1839 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 1,054
Post

Hey Guys,

Another land mass I have in mind LOL. How about we move all the people from Alaska here and ship our criminals out there. Where its nice and cold. Even better, Iceland. But then of Iceland isnt apart of the US.

Kevin
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-10-2001, 11:15 AM
Miami1839 Miami1839 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 1,054
Post

Killarney,

You do have a point there. You know in Virginia a 16 year old can be put to death? I never knew that until I went through Juvenile Correctional Officer training here.

Kevin
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-10-2001, 03:04 PM
KSig RC KSig RC is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Who you calling "boy"? The name's Hand Banana . . .
Posts: 6,981
Post

an interesting thesis, combining quotes from various bodies of study:
http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html

I disagree with the final paragraph/thesis, but it's a solid collection of studies and info. Also, the links at the bottom are useful.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.