advice needed

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by SECMom

HEY ZILLINI...!

Can you explain this one once and for all? My daughter graduated from Bama and spent 4 years in a sorority and maintains that if a pnm went to three prefs she would be placed in one of those three whether she actually matched or not. Auburn does not do this, but Bama does, right?

HEY SECMOM!

Let me emphazie this -- I can tell y'all what my personal understanding is of the polices at Bama but that doesn't mean I'm 100% accurate.

Panhellenic promises each PNM that if they go through the process in good faith and maxmize their options throughout, they will receive a bid from one of the Chapters they preffed. If she doesn't match before all 3 of those Chapters fills quota, she will be placed in one of them as a Quota Addition. Panhellenic will take the following into consideration when deciding which Chapter to place her in: see that no single Chapter gets a ton of Quota Additions while others have none; try to honor a PNM's priority list (i.e. #1, #2, #3); take into consideration where on a Bid List these PNM's fall.

HOWEVER, I'm pretty sure a PNM must have been invited back to and attend 3 Chapters on Serious/Pref night, the max number of parties. Now if a PNM was only invited to 1, this guarantee does not apply because in essence it would mean the Chapter had no say in the matter. It is supposed to be a mutual selection process afterall. If a PNM were invited to only 2, the odds are significantly better she will receive a bid from one, but not a lock. In both of these scenario's Panhellenic will do their best to place these women, but there is no guarantee. Yeah I know, that's kind of unfair because whose fault is it if a PNM didn't get invited to 3? I guess it comes down to the fact that Panhellenic tries to match as many as possible, but simply can't do it for everyone.

Also something to keep in mind, a PNM must have maximed her options throughout the entire process. Meaning, if she were invited to only 7 Chapters for Skit Day/Round 3, she must accept all 7 (the max number for that round). If the PNM cuts one Chapter herself because she had no interest and only attends 6 parties, the guarantee no longer applies. Same thing with Philanthropy Day/Round 2 and the 11 max parties. I do not believe the guarantee is voided if she isn't invited back to the max in the earlier rounds. I'm pretty sure it only applies to Serious/Pref Night.

Again to be completely honest, I could be wrong about all or parts.

[Army Wife'79]

After reading all this I think it's a miracle my D, who only had 3 recs, is in a fabulous sorority in a SEC school. (and it was one that she didn't have a rec for, so I'm assuming one was secured for her, and for that, I'd like to offer a sincere "thank you" to whoever looked at my D's resume and said "give her a shot".) You ladies are very generous of your time and talents in helping your local girls get squared away. I only wish it had been that way in the state we lived in. Kudos for all you rec-writers out there!

[SECMom]

Originally Posted by Zillini

HEY SECMOM!

Let me emphazie this -- I can tell y'all what my personal understanding is of the polices at Bama but that doesn't mean I'm 100% accurate.

Panhellenic promises each PNM that if they go through the process in good faith and maxmize their options throughout, they will receive a bid from one of the Chapters they preffed. If she doesn't match before all 3 of those Chapters fills quota, she will be placed in one of them as a Quota Addition. Panhellenic will take the following into consideration when deciding which Chapter to place her in: see that no single Chapter gets a ton of Quota Additions while others have none; try to honor a PNM's priority list (i.e. #1, #2, #3); take into consideration where on a Bid List these PNM's fall.

HOWEVER, I'm pretty sure a PNM must have been invited back to and attend 3 Chapters on Serious/Pref night, the max number of parties. Now if a PNM was only invited to 1, this guarantee does not apply because in essence it would mean the Chapter had no say in the matter. It is supposed to be a mutual selection process afterall. If a PNM were invited to only 2, the odds are significantly better she will receive a bid from one, but not a lock. In both of these scenario's Panhellenic will do their best to place these women, but there is no guarantee. Yeah I know, that's kind of unfair because whose fault is it if a PNM didn't get invited to 3? I guess it comes down to the fact that Panhellenic tries to match as many as possible, but simply can't do it for everyone.

Also something to keep in mind, a PNM must have maximed her options throughout the entire process. Meaning, if she were invited to only 7 Chapters for Skit Day/Round 3, she must accept all 7 (the max number for that round). If the PNM cuts one Chapter herself because she had no interest and only attends 6 parties, the guarantee no longer applies. Same thing with Philanthropy Day/Round 2 and the 11 max parties. I do not believe the guarantee is voided if she isn't invited back to the max in the earlier rounds. I'm pretty sure it only applies to Serious/Pref Night.

Again to be completely honest, I could be wrong about all or parts.

Thanks Zillini! This was my understanding also. I think Ole Miss tries to do the same thing as well, but I am not certain if it is an actual policy. I was a "rush counselor" at Auburn back in the 70s and I remember having several girls get "cut out" on bid day morning....hard on everyone. And we had no training, either!

[ZTA72]

Last year my daughters went through a very competitive rush at a southern school with only 2 recs... one to my sorority which they did not pledge... and one other house...because we had an illness in the family and truth be told, I had not happened upon this website yet.
They had a very successful rush, I'm old it's hard to say recruitment : ).
They were not released by any of the houses and were able to pledge the chapter of their choice.
All this to say, it CAN happen.
ZTA 72

[SECMom]

Originally Posted by ZTA72

Last year my daughters went through a very competitive rush at a southern school with only 2 recs... one to my sorority which they did not pledge... and one other house...because we had an illness in the family and truth be told, I had not happened upon this website yet.
They had a very successful rush, I'm old it's hard to say recruitment : ).
They were not released by any of the houses and were able to pledge the chapter of their choice.
All this to say, it CAN happen.
ZTA 72

Did we alert the vatican?

Really, though, that is amazing. At least from my very southern cut throat SEC rush perspective!!! One question...was it a delayed rush? When the girls are on campus for several weeks or even a semester before they rush (I refuse to use the term recruitment...too much work!) the actives do have some time to meet them and possibly acquire recs on girls that may not have one.

[Low C Sharp]

There's one big difference between job hiring and Panhellenic recruitment. In job hiring, a company does not care at all about what happens to rival companies, and it does not care at all about what happens to the applicants it doesn't hire.

Campus Panhellenics claim to care about both of those things, and they should. The goal is supposed to be to place as many quality women as possible in as many chapters as possible. If that's the goal, then you have the priorities backwards if you say, "Women have the responsibility to figure this out for themselves." It should be the system's responsibility to ONLY give out accurate information; that is, no Rho Chi or publication or adviser should EVER say "Recs aren't necessary" when they really are, even if the PNM could theoretically find out the truth elsewhere. At most, they should say, "While recs are not technically required, they are extremely important, and this is how you should go about getting them."

Yes, some systems are doing a great job of making this clear. But others seem to be sending mixed messages, and there's just no reason to do that. Even if you suppose that women who don't do their own research wouldn't make good NPC members (which I don't believe), giving out ANY misleading info creates resentful non-Greeks and very bad PR for the system.
________
Art On The Hill Condo Prathumnak

[ZTA72]

SEC mom, you are too funny, to answer your question no, it was not a delayed rush, we moved them in and the next day, poof, it was time for parties. They had no preconceived notions about the chapters either. I did a little advising on the phone from afar, I just told them to go with their " heart". Without knowing about this site, I told them to " maximize their options " and give every one the benefit of the doubt. And of course they could have been released by some of the chapters that they cut.
It is also an out of state school for us, where we knew no one, and I am not an alum of the chapter at their school. It's more like things sometimes do work out.

ZTA 72

[SECMom]

Originally Posted by ZTA72

SEC mom, you are too funny, to answer your question no, it was not a delayed rush, we moved them in and the next day, poof, it was time for parties. They had no preconceived notions about the chapters either. I did a little advising on the phone from afar, I just told them to go with their " heart". Without knowing about this site, I told them to " maximize their options " and give every one the benefit of the doubt. And of course they could have been released by some of the chapters that they cut.
It is also an out of state school for us, where we knew no one, and I am not an alum of the chapter at their school. It's more like things sometimes do work out.

ZTA 72

Well, I'll have to say that if anyone deserved for something to work out it would be the mama of two girls going through rush at the same time in the SEC who is paying DOUBLE out of state tuition--I gotta tell ya, you have my respect AND prayers!

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by ZTA72

SEC mom, you are too funny, to answer your question no, it was not a delayed rush, we moved them in and the next day, poof, it was time for parties. They had no preconceived notions about the chapters either. I did a little advising on the phone from afar, I just told them to go with their " heart". Without knowing about this site, I told them to " maximize their options " and give every one the benefit of the doubt. And of course they could have been released by some of the chapters that they cut.
It is also an out of state school for us, where we knew no one, and I am not an alum of the chapter at their school. It's more like things sometimes do work out.ZTA 72

I'll bet those chapters did their jobs and requested recs during the summer. That's what the chapters are SUPPOSED to do. Some do it better than others. It REALLY should not be up to the PNMs and their mamas, but....this is, after all, the real world....
And I think out of state tuition is now TRIPLE!!

[auburnmom2007]

thank you all so much and most are genuinely concerned and helpful. all of this has sure given this mom much needed information... i love the quote from Bill Cosby on advice for the "stupid" person, i have been somewhat stupid in all of this. again thanks for the supportive info its unfortunate that i didnt find y'all before all of this began, i was getting a girl ready to leave home! i found you by accident by putting auburn mom in google!!! (i was looking for a sticker for my car!!!)

[UGAalum94]

Zillini,

I'm not disputing what you posted, but it seems to me that the chapter who invited a girl to one pref already had a say in terms of inviting her to membership, and they did.

If she's on the bid/pref list, wouldn't they be happy to have her as a QA?

Is the problem that she jumps ahead of girls, who also ranked the chapter number one, that the chapter had higher on the bid list, but who were matched to their number two choices instead?

I'm trying to figure out why a panhellenic system wouldn't just commit to matching even PNM that any chapter was willing to list on their bid list as long as she maximized her options.

ETA: again, I'm not second guessing your information. But this stuff is fascinating to me, and I'm always trying to figure out why a policy might go the way it did. It seems peculiar to offer guaranteed matching only to the girls most likely to match anyway while other through no "fault" or decision of their own only get a shot at regular placement.

[Zillini]

Again Auburnmom, I'd like to reiterate that I wasn't trying to pick on you or anything of that sort. I think I speak for everyone here when I say we all cringe every time we hear anyone say "We were told Recs weren't necessary, so ..." It's no surprise to hear what happened next. While technically it's an accurate statement about Recs, it's so misleading and can put that PNM at a severe disadvantage in a highly competitve Recruitment process.

As for my sig quote, I use it on a different BB where I'm a moderator and trust me, it's much more applicable there. But I really like the quote and so decided to use it here as well.

[auburnmom2007]

so give this "stupid" mom the information that will allow my child to participate in something she really wants to be a part of in college. she sure didnt realize how important this would be to her until she shared the short time with "sisters" of different sororities.

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

Zillini,

I'm not disputing what you posted, but it seems to me that the chapter who invited a girl to one pref already had a say in terms of inviting her to membership, and they did.

If she's on the bid/pref list, wouldn't they be happy to have her as a QA?

Is the problem that she jumps ahead of girls, who also ranked the chapter number one, that the chapter had higher on the bid list, but who were matched to their number two choices instead?

I'm trying to figure out why a panhellenic system wouldn't just commit to matching even PNM that any chapter was willing to list on their bid list as long as she maximized her options.

ETA: again, I'm not second guessing your information. But this stuff is fascinating to me, and I'm always trying to figure out why a policy might go the way it did. It seems peculiar to offer guaranteed matching only to the girls most likely to match anyway while other through no "fault" or decision of their own only get a shot at regular placement.

I highlighted the section where I believe you answered your own question. I think that would be the case but I'm not sure.

Also this policy has been in place for a long time, years prior to the now-not-so-new NPC Release Figure system. Prior to that it wasn't nearly as common as it is now for PNM's to only be invited to 1 or 2 Chapters on Pref Night. I don't have any stats to back this up, but I rarely heard of PNM's who weren't invited to at least 3 parties for Pref back then. I have to wonder now that it is more commonplace to only have 1 or 2 invitations, if Panhellenic will somehow change or even do away with this policy. It's an interesting question and one I'll ask next time I have the ear of someone in authority who can answer.

[OSU Maman]

I think people need to realize that not all of us have been surrounded by or exposed to Greek life.

If I saw something that said recs were "not necessary, " then I would believe that statement (after finding out what a rec was-lol). It should not be assumed that people would know that even though stated that it's not necessary, you should get one anyway.

I am very sorry for your daughter, and hope that things work out for her some way.

My daughter will be attending Ohio State University. Recruitment doesn't take place until after Christmas. I understand that (or at least I thought I did) recs are not needed like they are at an SEC school. If someone has knowledge to the contrary, please let me know. Or should my daughter ask this question when she has her Welcome Week activities (where they will meet some of the people from Greek life)?

Thanks!