GreekChat.com Forums  

Go Back   GreekChat.com Forums > Greek Life

Greek Life This forum is for various discussion topics regarding greek life. If you are posting a non-greek related message, please do so in one of the General Chat Topic forums.


Register Now for FREE!
Join GreekChat.com, The Fraternity & Sorority Greek Chat Network. To sign up for your FREE account INSTANTLY fill out the form below!

Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail:
 
Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

  I agree to forum rules 

» GC Stats
Members: 319,162
Threads: 114,998
Posts: 2,178,788
Welcome to our newest member, JorgTuckfi
» Online Users: 216
1 members and 215 guests
naraht
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 05-10-2021, 08:16 AM
JonInKC JonInKC is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: I am not in KC!
Posts: 832
Send a message via Yahoo to JonInKC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheerio View Post
In related university student news, the Illinois legislature is proposing that its public universities drop entrance exam requirements. Just another great reason to allow anyone attending an Illinois public university campus to join a fraternal greek organization

It's ABLEIST to not allow people into college just because they won't be able to pass the classes! I can't even with you right now. I'm literally shaking.
__________________
"Playing in this nice weather really makes me remember all the times I got stung by a bee." - John Madden

p a w e a since 1899
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-10-2021, 10:23 AM
Sister Havana Sister Havana is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Western suburbs of Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,986
Send a message via AIM to Sister Havana
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheerio View Post
In related university student news, the Illinois legislature is proposing that its public universities drop entrance exam requirements. Just another great reason to allow anyone attending an Illinois public university campus to join a fraternal greek organization


Just to clarify, a lot of Illinois universities (including U of I) are currently going test-optional temporarily due to Covid. It sounds like this bill would make that permanent. Applicants can still submit ACT or SAT scores if they want to, but they aren't required to. All other admission criteria will still apply. Here's some more information about the proposed bill, and here is a Test-Optional FAQ from UIC, as a rrepresentative sample.

ETA: Several Illinois schools already were test-optional pre-Covid, including Knox, DePaul, SIU, WIU, Monmouth, and University of Chicago.
__________________
Alpha Phi Omega- Mu Chapter
Chicagoland Area Alumni Association

Last edited by Sister Havana; 05-10-2021 at 10:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-10-2021, 01:58 PM
shadokat shadokat is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Reading, PA
Posts: 3,695
Send a message via AIM to shadokat Send a message via Yahoo to shadokat
What's the difference if you drop entrance exam requirements, or you have requirements and then admit 90% of the people anyways? At least they're a little transparent about it. PA State Schools have been admitting anything with a pulse, outside of West Chester, for ages. It's sad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheerio View Post
In related university student news, the Illinois legislature is proposing that its public universities drop entrance exam requirements. Just another great reason to allow anyone attending an Illinois public university campus to join a fraternal greek organization
__________________
Be a leader; Be Yourself; Be DPhiE - Esse Quam Videri
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-11-2021, 09:15 AM
SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Land of Chaos
Posts: 9,209
Gamma Phi Beta has dropped recommendations and will now accept letters of recommendation from anyone. The new form should be released on 5/17.
__________________
Gamma Phi Beta
Courtesy is owed, respect is earned, love is given.
Proud daughter AND mother of a Gamma Phi. 3 generations of love, labor, learning and loyalty.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-16-2021, 10:39 AM
Lupine Lupine is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonInKC View Post
It's ABLEIST to not allow people into college just because they won't be able to pass the classes! I can't even with you right now. I'm literally shaking.
I'm a private admissions counselor in a group practice. This year, nearly 60% of our students applied to college without test scores. We did not see unexpected results. Top students with large numbers of AP and/or IB courses with high grades, strong extracurricular activities, and (presumably) strong recommendations still got into highly selective colleges. Good students who tossed applications at highly selective colleges didn't get admitted. We have lots of students who apply to the University of California campuses. That system was test blind this year via a court order. Again, we didn't see unexpected results.

Most colleges that are test blind (will not look at scores) or test-optional (will consider if submitted) will still look at AP/IB scores. They also look at awards and recognitions from national and regional competitions, like the National Latin Exam, American Mathematics Exam, National History Day, Science Fairs, and so on.

We tell our students that when you apply test-optional, that just means that all other parts of your application get more scrutiny.

Based on working with hundreds of college applicants, just about anyone willing to spend $2500-$4000 on individual test prep can legitimately raise an ACT score from 23 to 30 or higher. Gains on the SAT are harder, especially for applicants without strong reading skills and vocabulary. We don't do test prep, but we keep in touch with folks who do a good job, and we see what money and time can buy. We also know the process that needs to be followed at high schools in our area to qualify and get approved for extended time. Many lower-income students who ought to qualify for extended time based on ADD or other learning disabilities never get that because they don't know to ask and their guidance counselors have huge caseloads.

I'm unconvinced that the SAT or ACT adds a lot of value, especially since money can (and does) buy prep that can achieve just about any desired score. There are cram schools in some cities where a few weeks of prep results in more than half the students earning 1500 or higher on the SAT.

What we did see this year is that less selective colleges (and most of the colleges in America are less selective) are under-enrolled for this fall and that hundreds are still accepting applicants for fall admissions. I made inquiries two weeks ago for a student with a radical change of plan, and seven of the nine less selective colleges I checked were still quietly accepting applications for engineering, though only three were on the space available list published by NACAC.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 05-16-2021, 02:47 PM
honeychile's Avatar
honeychile honeychile is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Counting my blessings!
Posts: 28,459
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadokat View Post
What's the difference if you drop entrance exam requirements, or you have requirements and then admit 90% of the people anyways? At least they're a little transparent about it. PA State Schools have been admitting anything with a pulse, outside of West Chester, for ages. It's sad.
I remember back in the day, one of my pledge sisters was working in the admissions office at Pitt. She showed me the applications of a couple of athletes, with SAT scores between 420-440. You get 400 points for signing your name.
__________________
~ *~"ADPi until I die!"~*~
Proud to be a Macon Magnolia
"He who is not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 05-17-2021, 09:51 AM
ForeverRoses ForeverRoses is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: right here
Posts: 2,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupine View Post
I'm a private admissions counselor in a group practice. This year, nearly 60% of our students applied to college without test scores. We did not see unexpected results. Top students with large numbers of AP and/or IB courses with high grades, strong extracurricular activities, and (presumably) strong recommendations still got into highly selective colleges. Good students who tossed applications at highly selective colleges didn't get admitted. We have lots of students who apply to the University of California campuses. That system was test blind this year via a court order. Again, we didn't see unexpected results.

Most colleges that are test blind (will not look at scores) or test-optional (will consider if submitted) will still look at AP/IB scores. They also look at awards and recognitions from national and regional competitions, like the National Latin Exam, American Mathematics Exam, National History Day, Science Fairs, and so on.

We tell our students that when you apply test-optional, that just means that all other parts of your application get more scrutiny.

Based on working with hundreds of college applicants, just about anyone willing to spend $2500-$4000 on individual test prep can legitimately raise an ACT score from 23 to 30 or higher. Gains on the SAT are harder, especially for applicants without strong reading skills and vocabulary. We don't do test prep, but we keep in touch with folks who do a good job, and we see what money and time can buy. We also know the process that needs to be followed at high schools in our area to qualify and get approved for extended time. Many lower-income students who ought to qualify for extended time based on ADD or other learning disabilities never get that because they don't know to ask and their guidance counselors have huge caseloads.

I'm unconvinced that the SAT or ACT adds a lot of value, especially since money can (and does) buy prep that can achieve just about any desired score. There are cram schools in some cities where a few weeks of prep results in more than half the students earning 1500 or higher on the SAT.

What we did see this year is that less selective colleges (and most of the colleges in America are less selective) are under-enrolled for this fall and that hundreds are still accepting applicants for fall admissions. I made inquiries two weeks ago for a student with a radical change of plan, and seven of the nine less selective colleges I checked were still quietly accepting applications for engineering, though only three were on the space available list published by NACAC.
From a Parent perspective I've noticed all of this as well. My oldest applied to two less selective colleges as back-ups (and because they were test runs for filling out the applications and he had 'apply for free" codes). he has been bombarded with emails and letters from those schools saying "you didn't start here, but you can finish here!". One of his acquaintances that didn't get into one of those schools for fall semester received a similar message from the college and he transferred at the semester break.

as for no recs, I think recs are helpful. They are not make or break for us though. We don't have our pledge class 100% selected before recruitment even starts. The best "recs" we get are the No-recs. The danger ahead recs.
__________________
So I enter that I may grow in knowledge, wisdom and love.

So I depart that I may now better serve my fellow man, my country & God
.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 05-17-2021, 10:17 AM
carnation carnation is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 12,690
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverRoses View Post
he has been bombarded with emails and letters from those schools saying "you didn't start here, but you can finish here!". One of his acquaintances that didn't get into one of those schools for fall semester received a similar message from the college and he transferred at the semester break.

as for no recs, I think recs are helpful. They are not make or break for us though. We don't have our pledge class 100% selected before recruitment even starts. The best "recs" we get are the No-recs. The danger ahead recs.
YES. My oldest daughter and I no-recced a girl whom we had seen attack the assistant director at Scout camp. (She was a counselor.)One day, the phone rang and it was the head of AOII's alum rec committee in that town--she couldn't reach my daughter about the no-rec and wanted to ask me to thank her. The committee had done some searching and found out that this girl had a record for assault in a few places.

By the way, here was the outcome. The girl didn't get a bid from anyone and the college president harassed the one sorority with slots available to take her. They finally did. A member of that chapter told me that the girl was kicked out in a few weeks for assaulting a sister.
__________________
WARR EAGLE!!! WOOO PIG! SOOIE!! HAIL STATE!!
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 05-17-2021, 10:33 AM
honeychile's Avatar
honeychile honeychile is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Counting my blessings!
Posts: 28,459
If anyone is questioning the value of a recommendation, this should help you make up your mind!

Quote:
Originally Posted by carnation View Post
YES. My oldest daughter and I no-recced a girl whom we had seen attack the assistant director at Scout camp. (She was a counselor.)One day, the phone rang and it was the head of AOII's alum rec committee in that town--she couldn't reach my daughter about the no-rec and wanted to ask me to thank her. The committee had done some searching and found out that this girl had a record for assault in a few places.

By the way, here was the outcome. The girl didn't get a bid from anyone and the college president harassed the one sorority with slots available to take her. They finally did. A member of that chapter told me that the girl was kicked out in a few weeks for assaulting a sister.
__________________
~ *~"ADPi until I die!"~*~
Proud to be a Macon Magnolia
"He who is not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 05-17-2021, 07:12 PM
AnchorAlumna AnchorAlumna is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Old South
Posts: 2,887
I understand that Kappa Alpha Theta has opened its recommendation forms to any human.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 05-17-2021, 07:49 PM
carnation carnation is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 12,690
That was smart! Grab any ole human off the street and tell him what to write about you!
__________________
WARR EAGLE!!! WOOO PIG! SOOIE!! HAIL STATE!!
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 05-17-2021, 07:52 PM
TLLK TLLK is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by carnation View Post
YES. My oldest daughter and I no-recced a girl whom we had seen attack the assistant director at Scout camp. (She was a counselor.)One day, the phone rang and it was the head of AOII's alum rec committee in that town--she couldn't reach my daughter about the no-rec and wanted to ask me to thank her. The committee had done some searching and found out that this girl had a record for assault in a few places.

By the way, here was the outcome. The girl didn't get a bid from anyone and the college president harassed the one sorority with slots available to take her. They finally did. A member of that chapter told me that the girl was kicked out in a few weeks for assaulting a sister.



How fortunate for the AOII chapter and others that they had this information on that PNM because you and your daughter had taken the opportunity to not recommend her for membership. How awful for the sister in the sorority who was assaulted.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 05-17-2021, 08:22 PM
thetalady thetalady is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Big D
Posts: 2,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna View Post
I understand that Kappa Alpha Theta has opened its recommendation forms to any human.
... making recs absolutely useless now. They were iffy already.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 05-18-2021, 07:18 AM
JonInKC JonInKC is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: I am not in KC!
Posts: 832
Send a message via Yahoo to JonInKC
Quote:
Originally Posted by thetalady View Post
... making recs absolutely useless now. They were iffy already.

Feeling cute, might write a rec for someone's daughter later, idk
__________________
"Playing in this nice weather really makes me remember all the times I got stung by a bee." - John Madden

p a w e a since 1899
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 05-18-2021, 03:21 PM
thetalady thetalady is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Big D
Posts: 2,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonInKC View Post
Feeling cute, might write a rec for someone's daughter later, idk
I am OUT of the rec business!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
sorority girls obtaining recs for PNMs? Austen16 Sorority Recruitment 4 07-20-2012 08:34 AM
Dear PNMs who dropped out or who did not get a bid. Drolefille Sorority Recruitment 16 08-22-2011 12:12 AM
Sororities that dropped out of NPC? barnard1897 Greek Life 14 11-14-2007 04:40 PM
Writing Recs for PNMs ZetaLuvBunny Recruitment 25 06-28-2006 09:52 AM
i dropped my brain! omega2 Chit Chat 7 07-27-2004 07:59 AM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.