Ohio Congressperson plays "Coward" card on 37 Year Marine Veteran...

[DeltAlum]

This reminds me of the old saying, "Be sure your brain is engaged before putting your mouth in gear..."


"said she had received a call from a Marine colonel, who "asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message: that cowards cut and run, Marines never do."


Showdown on Capitol Hill (excerpts)

WASHINGTON (Nov. 19) - She grew up in the rough-and-tumble of a family auto racing business, went through concealed-weapons training, and bears a local nickname seldom applied to shrinking violets: "Mean Jean..."

...Among those seemingly turned off (by her comment) was Ms. Schmidt, who quickly asked that her words be withdrawn from the Congressional record, even as they made headlines worldwide.

The uproar arose Friday as the House debated a resolution calling for an immediate withdrawal of forces from Iraq.

In scheduling the vote, Republicans were trying to embarrass Democratic critics of the war, forcing them to dissociate themselves from a call earlier in the week for a slower but still definite withdrawal. That call came from Representative John P. Murtha, Democrat of Pennsylvania, a Vietnam combat veteran who spent 37 years in the Marines and is one of the most respected military authorities in the House...

...In attacking the Democrats' position, Ms. Schmidt, the newest member of Congress, said she had received a call from a Marine colonel, who "asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message: that cowards cut and run, Marines never do."

(Note: Murtha was also a Marine Colonel when he retired)

The House exploded in catcalls and jeers among outraged Democrats. When debate resumed, Ms. Schmidt retracted her comments and said, "I did not intend to suggest they applied to any member," especially Mr. Murtha.

Ms. Schmidt could not be reached for comment on Saturday, with voice mailboxes full at all three of her offices. Her campaign manager did not return a phone call.

Several Republicans who were on the House floor said afterward that Ms. Schmidt did not appear to know she was referring to a much-decorated veteran.

"The poor lady didn't know Jack Murtha was a Marine - she really just ran into a hornet's nest," said Representative Jack Kingston of Georgia.

Representative David Dreier of California said, "Very clearly, she did not know that Jack Murtha was a Marine."

...The 100-proof speech on the House floor may shore up Ms. Schmidt's standing inside her party's right flank.

"I was listening to talk radio today, and people were calling in and praising her," said Chris Finney, a Cincinnati Republican allied with Ms. Schmidt's local rivals. "They like that jingoistic thinking."

[DeltAlum]

"I think it's a healthy thing in a democracy to have people disagreeing, but if you're screaming or demonizing, then the very people you want to reach — which is those who don't agree with you — can't hear you."

-President Bill Clinton

[RACooper]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
"I was listening to talk radio today, and people were calling in and praising her," said Chris Finney, a Cincinnati Republican allied with Ms. Schmidt's local rivals. "They like that jingoistic thinking."

You can pretty much tell she was going for the whole jingoistic angle - litterally wrapping herself in the flag with the outfit she chose the day she made the statement. She could have slammed Murtha's position/opinion calling for the withdrawal of troops; but instead she chose to sink to a 'Rovian' low (sorry it was a great phrase used by Deutsche Welle this morning).

What I'm wondering is this: does the US Congress have rules of decorum and such similar to the British/Canadian Parliamentary system? ie. can she be charged/threatened with a libel suit for defaming a person's character on the floor?

[kddani]

Lol, go Murtha! Glad to see one of my reps making headlines. Rather him than Santorum. (as an aside, seems that Santorum has been pretty quiet lately... probably trying to keep a low profile and not say anything outrageous since he'll be running for reelection next term).

This woman truly made herself sound like an idiot.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by RACooper
What I'm wondering is this: does the US Congress have rules of decorum and such similar to the British/Canadian Parliamentary system? ie. can she be charged/threatened with a libel suit for defaming a person's character on the floor?

The British Parliament has decorum?

I thought they spent most of the day yelling at each other across the aisle. (Then went out for a jar.)

Again, a lawyer needs to confirm or disagree, but I believe that under U.S. libel laws, when a person becomes a newsworthy personality (like a politician), she or he gives up many of his/her rights under those statutes -- and also to some rights of privacy.

[33girl]

I'm a former resident of Murtha's district.

The ONLY reason he spoke up is because he's been there for so long and brings so much pork to the district, he could basically get up there and say he's a Nazi and eats puppies for breakfast and still get voted into office time after time. If this was 25 years ago and he didn't have the seniority, he never would have opened his mouth. Because there are LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of guys in the service from his district, lots of people that will see this as an attack on the servicemen and lots of Dems that are only Dems because their parents were - who are more Republican than some Republicans.

Whether I agree with his position or not is immaterial, but he's not this paragon of courage some are making him out to be.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by kddani
Lol, go Murtha! Glad to see one of my reps making headlines. Rather him than Santorum. (as an aside, seems that Santorum has been pretty quiet lately... probably trying to keep a low profile and not say anything outrageous since he'll be running for reelection next term).

This woman truly made herself sound like an idiot.

There's also an absolute privilige to things said on the floor of the legislature.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
The British Parliament has decorum?

I thought they spent most of the day yelling at each other across the aisle. (Then went out for a jar.)

Again, a lawyer needs to confirm or disagree, but I believe that under U.S. libel laws, when a person becomes a newsworthy personality (like a politician), she or he gives up many of his/her rights under those statutes -- and also to some rights of privacy.

Yeah the British debates are a little more entertaining to watch than say the Canadian or US floor debates...

But you'll notice that they never get down to personal attacks on each other's character - and if they do they quickly appologize to the speaker and the house. There is a distinct difference in what you can say about a person on the floor and what you can say about them off the floor - on the floor rules of decorum/honour are still enforced (legally if need be); so you can slam the opposition for shoddy policies, finicial irregularities, and vote rigging - but you can't actually impugne a member of the opposition's character on the floor. Off the floor however anything goes really, a real no holds barred media rumble... or it used to be before Blair got the police involved in enforcing party policy...

[moe.ron]

Link to the Video Stream

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by moe.ron
Link to the Video Stream

How do you spell, "Loose Cannon?"

ETA:

Murtha to Russert On Meet The Press...

"Referring to Rep. Jean Schmidt (R-Ohio) calling him a coward on the floor of Congress, he pointed out that she is a new member of the House and maybe someone simply gave her something to read."


Being occassionaly cynical of Congress, I have to wonder if this might not be orchestrated by others...I won't speculate on who.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by 33girl
I'm a former resident of Murtha's district.

The ONLY reason he spoke up is because he's been there for so long and brings so much pork to the district, he could basically get up there and say he's a Nazi and eats puppies for breakfast and still get voted into office time after time. If this was 25 years ago and he didn't have the seniority, he never would have opened his mouth. Because there are LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of guys in the service from his district, lots of people that will see this as an attack on the servicemen and lots of Dems that are only Dems because their parents were - who are more Republican than some Republicans.

Whether I agree with his position or not is immaterial, but he's not this paragon of courage some are making him out to be.

I need to cosign on this. It's a Central PA thing about Murtha - he seriously could kill a puppy on the Capitol steps and the J-towners would still vote for him.

[hoosier]

Murtha and the Dem boys are just grandstanding. When the "bring the troops home" resolution came to a vote, even Murtha didn't vote for it, as it lost about 433 - 3.

Of course, one of the 3 was my Congresswomen and jihadist, Cynthia McKinney.

When it came right down to voting against American troops and American Marines, only 3 were willing (of course, 6 other cowards voted "present".)

[kddani]

Originally posted by hoosier
Of course, one of the 3 was my Congresswomen and jihadist, Cynthia McKinney.

As usual, another incredibly inappropriate post by hoosier. There are ways of getting your point across without saying something so libelous.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by hoosier
Murtha and the Dem boys are just grandstanding. When the "bring the troops home" resolution came to a vote, even Murtha didn't vote for it, as it lost about 433 - 3.

OK, but let's tell the whole story just for the sake of keeping it straight.

The Democratic leader, Nancy Pelosi (sp?) told everyone to vote against that particular resolution for parliamentary reasons. The vote probably doesn't reflect the spirit of either party at this point.

Besides, the resolution and vote aren't really what this thread is about -- although I understand why it bends that way.

The thread is about a woman who shot off her mouth, naming by name a veteran of 37 years in the Marine Corp and Marine Reserves, (he was an active duty Marine at the beginning of his military career, went into the Reserves and then went back into the active Corp. during Vietnam if I read his biography correctly) who was decorated in Vietnam and rose to a senior command rank.

Maybe somebody set her up, as I think Representative Murtha seems to be suggesting in his comment to Tim Russert. In any event, before you attack someone by name on the floor of the House of Representatives, you should perhaps know something about that person and his background and record.

[hoosier]

Originally posted by kddani
As usual, another incredibly inappropriate post by hoosier. There are ways of getting your point across without saying something so libelous.

The absolute defense of "libel" charges is truth.

Cynthia is proud of her reputation as the Al Quaeda rep in Congress.