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  #76  
Old 10-14-2018, 01:39 PM
SunflowerState SunflowerState is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZTheta View Post
I promised my friends I wasn't going to comment here because of the very obvious Arizona Alpha Phi connections to this issue. You can google it, folks. Breaking my promise to say this:

beckymer92 you aren't even an NPC member. You don't have any sort of grasp on the bigger picture or the real issues that are at stake. This isn't just about Alpha Phi and we all know it. You're clueless. You miss all the important points and keep harping on looks. Your shallow trolling is beyond obvious. Have a seat. Or not. Whatever.

On the very remote, minute chance that you are an NPC member, boy howdy and an eye roll and a sigh is all I got for you. Sure would like to know your chapter. Statistically we are going to have people like you in our membership and typically they don't prevail or last long. I looked at all your posts and I am confident that you are not one of us. At this point you're just a pathetic joke. I don't need to defend my Panhellenic sisters and our combined membership. So go back under your bridge and stay the hell out of something you know nothing about.

Oh, AZTheta, I'm so glad you broke your promise! I always enjoy your take on things. Thank you.
  #77  
Old 10-14-2018, 05:19 PM
sigmagirl2000 sigmagirl2000 is offline
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I'm not going to lie. I'm refrained from adding to this thread. I was a national officer for Sigma Kappa working with the chapter at the University of Michigan (as well as about 15 other chapters) regarding recruitment when this person was her recruitment chair. I'm going to say blatantly that I'm honored to know that I wasn't that person coming in as a national officer and having any chapter act or even have to question their integrity in this way. When I first read it, I was appalled and I felt so bad for the women brainwashed to think this was even marginally okay. It made me wonder if this is how certain chapters justify hazing over and over again. "It's the history of the chapter. It isn't really mean, it's in the best interest" etc. Personally, I assumed this was something just happening at this one campus. Maybe I'm naive. It hurts my heart that women and alumnae are coming out from this organization and confirming the truth. This is not the reality of 90% of NPC membership. This hurts me as a Panhellenic woman. I don't want any young women to enter into an organization that is supposed to instill personal growth, to learn that everything is appearance based. It's not my organization. I have no voice, or say. However, I am so so sad. My heart hurts for the collegiate and alumnae members who are hurting that a vow they pledged even to any degree has turned into something so much less than that. I hope for you all that the vows you pledged are restored across ALL your collegiate chapters.

I don't know what else to say.
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  #78  
Old 10-14-2018, 07:00 PM
clemsongirl clemsongirl is offline
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Beckymer92, what sorority and chapter are you a member of? I'm a member of the Zeta Nu chapter of Alpha Delta Pi at Clemson University and we do not chose our members exclusively off of looks, before you ask me.
  #79  
Old 10-15-2018, 12:06 AM
beckymer92 beckymer92 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clemsongirl View Post
Beckymer92, what sorority and chapter are you a member of? I'm a member of the Zeta Nu chapter of Alpha Delta Pi at Clemson University and we do not chose our members exclusively off of looks, before you ask me.
My chapter isn't relevant to the conversation and neither is yours nor am I asking if (or saying that) a chapter does/should rush based solely on looks.

I'm saying that rushing based on looks will still net a chapter filled with great women, APhi is doing very well no matter if they are or aren't rushing based on looks alone and we don't know if there is an APhi policy of rushing based on looks alone. I can't be any more clear and really don't have time to continue repeating myself.
  #80  
Old 10-15-2018, 01:15 AM
navane navane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beckymer92 View Post
I'm saying that rushing based on looks will still net a chapter filled with great women, APhi is doing very well no matter if they are or aren't rushing based on looks alone and we don't know if there is an APhi policy of rushing based on looks alone. I can't be any more clear and really don't have time to continue repeating myself.

I've been reading along with your posts and I get what you're saying. Really, I do.

Think where there is a disconnect is that we're not saying that, all other things being equal (GPA, accomplishments, etc), a chapter should go ahead and pick the ugliest girls in the bunch over the better looking ones. No one is saying that attractive women cannot also be intelligent and accomplished. Of course the total package is highly desired. If a chapter can filled up with beautiful AND intelligent women, awesome. I follow you on that.

I think, though, your position appears to be operating on the assumption that all good-looking women are always intelligent, talented and of good character. You may not have intended that, but that's how some of your posts come across to me. What I'm saying is that is not always the case. It is not good to over-focus on looks to the detriment of more important qualities. It would not be a good thing for a chapter to dismiss a highly qualified girl who is a 7/10 in looks in favor of a 9/10 with weaker qualifications.

I think that many of us are aghast because it appears that the sorority in the essay is being depicted as disregarding other, more important qualities in favor of a highly appearance-based system. THAT is what we object to. Do we KNOW for sure that the attractive new members who were bid at that chapter had lesser qualifications? No, you're right, I guess we don't. I get what you're saying when you say that you think whatever they're doing is working for them.

Buuuuut......there is still the matter of looks being used to unceremoniously weed out highly-qualified and well-liked women because an outsider deemed them as "less attractive" than other rushees. And the matter of looks being used to separate sisters from other sisters. Looks are important, but not to such a great extent.

I believe it's a slippery slope. That, in order to maintain the status of having the most attractive members, there could be a tendency to start dipping lower on the other qualifications in order to make sure you keep pulling in the prettiest ones. Again, attractive doesn't automatically mean the woman is also moral, kind or smart. It's just too tempting to disregard the inner characteristics in favor of the outward ones.

In short, you said, "...rushing based on looks will still net a chapter filled with great women..." and I'm saying, no, that's not always the case. If I only picked the 9s and 10s in looks and considered nothing else, then I am gambling with my chapter.

I took the time to sincerely try to understand what you were saying. Can you see where I am coming from?
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  #81  
Old 10-15-2018, 10:28 AM
beckymer92 beckymer92 is offline
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Navane, yes, I do get what you are saying. The tension between chapter self-autonomy and nat'l oversight is always a real issue. Also, thank you for your reasoned tone.

It's always a gamble trying to craft a class of girls without knowing each in more depth than the limited time that rush allows. There will always be girls that don't live up to expectations. I'm saying that you will not get any more or any fewer duds by prioritizing the pretty ones because we just can't stereotype attractive women with negative traits.

Chapters frequently have specific personalities. Those focusing on academics or high school/camp connections or Jewishness or cheer or athleticism is no different than one focusing on attractiveness. IF there is a nat'l policy (I'm not convinced there is) I understand trying to analyze it but in the end, we have a sorority that does well all over the country.
  #82  
Old 10-15-2018, 09:58 PM
VioletsAreBlue VioletsAreBlue is offline
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Rather than have some non-yet-forced debate about whether or not attractive members bring additional positive attributes to the sorority table, we can probably boil this down to one simple statement.

Judging a woman's worth first and foremost on her appearance is a sh!tty thing to do.

That is ultimately what this comes down to and ultimately what bothers me most about it. As adults we know and understand that looks and appearance are close to the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to what traits we value in others. It is something we stress to our children, an understanding of human beings we hope they embrace as they grow up. Why is that suddenly checked at the door for sorority membership? By doing so you tap into part of the worst and most vulnerable part of the 18-22 year old psyche.

I don't think this is an on-the-book policy, however I suspect it is a recruitment strategy utilized in certain scenarios, like membership selection during colonization or whatever alpha phi does for chapter reorganization, or at chapters at larger and competitive universities. I doubt they do it with the chapter who don't fit their attractive member standard yet are meeting quota just fine and in positive standing on their campus -- there is really no purpose for shaking things up in those scenarios. But we know it is happening in some chapters, through the leadership consultants and that means that the strategy is embraced to a certain degree at the national level.
  #83  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:34 AM
VioletsAreBlue VioletsAreBlue is offline
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I have one last thought - which might earn me a wrist slap - but I think it's one worth sharing.

I see a lot of Alpha Phi's, both here and on another site, who have expressed frustration with the recruitment strategies. This University of Michigan "expose" (for lack of a better word), just sort of blows open the door of what everybody had suspected and whispered about for several years. I'm sorry that your membership has to deal with this - Alpha Phi is a respected and historic organization. It deserves better leadership.

Get involved in your alumnae chapters, volunteer with collegiate chapters, show up at convention and conferences, raise your hand, speak out. Find others who share your concern and band together. Utilize social media - if there is one thing that Alpha Phi excels at acros campuses, it is their social media presence. Real change comes at a grass-roots level.

And there is another way -- and this is where I might get in trouble for the statement, but it's an action, although perhaps more disruptive than people would like. If you hear of a school opening for colonization, call, identify yourself as an alpha phi, and request that they not invite Alpha Phi to present, or to colonize on their campus, and outline your concerns. Think about it - if LSU, Ole Miss, UGA, and Florida had all said "Sorry, not this time" to Alpha Phi, it would have raised a red flag. It would not impact their current chapters or the current membership. But it certainly would have caught the attention of nationals quickly enough.

I admit I say that from the standpoint of not being an alpha phi sister. I'm not sure I'd have the stomach to make such a recommendation on my own GLO.
  #84  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:53 AM
PGD-GRAD PGD-GRAD is offline
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As a fraternity advisor who has assisted with expansions at several campuses, I’ve been very interested in how sorority chapters recruit versus how fraternities do. Mostly we try to get a cross-section of all 4 classes—heavy on freshmen and sophomores of course. And hopefully a mixture of student activities and maybe sports figures in—and we are always hopeful of including legacies.

This summer at our convention, several of our Field Secretaries who had been recruiting for colonies got into a discussion of what they had observed with sorority expansions. It was VERY interesting, and I’m wading in because it sort of applies here. Some groups they said (and I won’t mention them) “took” a current cross-section of the campus, including, for example, girls representing different races, religions, majors and certainly body types. Some other national organizations, they said, DEFINITELY looked for “pretty girls” to start with, even asking some fraternity guys they’d met to please send any “cute freshmen” who hadn’t pledged other houses to their table. From their discussion it seems evident that if such a “recruiting manual” or whatever Michigan used has any use, it’s during a COLONIZATION, where you get to pick EXACTLY the “look” you want the chapter to have.
This whole thread is very interesting btw—but even as a husband and father of two amazing sorority women, it makes me sad.
  #85  
Old 10-16-2018, 01:58 PM
beckymer92 beckymer92 is offline
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I can't believe what I'm reading. “get involved”, band together and try to force an outcome based on rumors and uncorroborated accusations? SMH. If this isn’t sour grapes, I don’t know what is. Cloaked in moral sounding platitudes, you guys just come across as gossipy in this entire thread, starting with the “mean girls” line. I suggest you lead with hard evidence first before you try to interfere with any group setting up shop anywhere. You guys will just sound crazy and petty otherwise.

I’d love to see actual evidence of these accusations. Please PM me with it. I also suggest you go directly to any source to confirm instead of rounding up support on a greek forum that sounds increasing gossipy.

I’ve been asking my college student to let me share her rush story here but from the sounds of this forum, I think we’ll pass. I understand the point of talking about sorority personalities on a forum such as this one but when a conversation devolves to this, it just makes this forum look gossipy.
  #86  
Old 10-16-2018, 04:10 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beckymer92 View Post
Tanglewood: I think you are right. My goddaughter went through rush at UT. We pretty much say the same thing as you. My GD went KD. We learned much about the rush system at Texas in advance. We've heard the stories. I know of the rigid tier system but in reality, all chapters have attractive, smart girls in their ranks. I know all chapters grab girls they know first. This is prolly true for sorority life in general. Every chapter. Every house. At Texas, it's clear which houses try to grab their camp buddies or Hardin girls. For the cheer/pom pnm's, Zeta Tau Alpha automatically keeps them on their return list. It's like they want them all every year! Plenty of girls buck the system, though. Like the cheer and pommies that chose Alpha Phi and Alpha Chi. Or the Highland Park girls that went Alpha Phi because that house already has an HP faction. And the pageant girl that went DG. She probably could have gone Zeta. This shows there is more that binds the chapters together than what separates them. Don't get me wrong. I know the UT system is still highly structured (and that does matter to some people) but, unlike when I was in school, the actives themselves seem to have all kinds of friends from so many other chapters now. It's so nice to see! Like the Theta that is roomies with and hangs out with an ADPi. I just saw the AXD pictures this morning. Such.pretty.girls. The tent talk may still be there at Texas but the system is much more intermixed than PNMs think.

Hoping your daughter will share her story. I'll ask my gd to put hers in writing as well.
Your posts do have some merit though, if you take a drink of wine every time you type “sour grapes.”

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  #87  
Old 10-16-2018, 04:46 PM
VioletsAreBlue VioletsAreBlue is offline
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Yes, get involved. Is there something wrong with that? Sorority women are encouraged to stay involved for their lifetime, it is not just a collegiate experience. That's why they have alumnae chapters and networks with officer positions. That's why chapters rely on alumnae advisors. That's why alumnae orgs are represented at national conventions, win awards for involvement and activity. I'm surprised you would question something like that, as a member of a GLO, one would think you understand how it works. And yes, if enough people are upset with an organization, its leadership and how it is run, then action leads to change.

These ideas really aren't that complicated.
  #88  
Old 10-16-2018, 05:15 PM
Sororitysock Sororitysock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beckymer92 View Post
My chapter isn't relevant to the conversation and neither is yours nor am I asking if (or saying that) a chapter does/should rush based solely on looks.

I'm saying that rushing based on looks will still net a chapter filled with great women, APhi is doing very well no matter if they are or aren't rushing based on looks alone and we don't know if there is an APhi policy of rushing based on looks alone. I can't be any more clear and really don't have time to continue repeating myself.
Have a seat and shut your mouth, Diane. You're not Greek and never were.
  #89  
Old 10-16-2018, 05:50 PM
KFKPHIMU KFKPHIMU is offline
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Originally Posted by beckymer92 View Post
I’d love to see actual evidence of these accusations. Please PM me with it. I also suggest you go directly to any source to confirm instead of rounding up support on a greek forum that sounds increasing gossipy.
I don't have evidence to these practices or not, but potentially this is a huge PR issue for Alpha Phi and the Greek system. News does not have to be 100% truthful to get traction these days. Initially, I thought it was completely bogus but there are accounts from people (who seem credible and concerned for THEIR organization) are confirming it.

Your point, it is working for them so what is the problem? For me the problem is as a women, I bring a whole lot more to the table than my looks and drilling me down to a "hot or not" number is down right degrading. As a mother of daughters, please don't even insult my daughters who bring so much more to the table than their looks.
  #90  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:59 PM
GreekOne GreekOne is offline
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Originally Posted by KFKPHIMU View Post

Your point, it is working for them so what is the problem? For me the problem is as a women, I bring a whole lot more to the table than my looks and drilling me down to a "hot or not" number is down right degrading. As a mother of daughters, please don't even insult my daughters who bring so much more to the table than their looks.
And, to this point, at the end of the day, the "hot or not" tier rankings that are driving this approach are being driven by what fraternity men "think" about women. Sororities were founded on principles of strong independent women creating a place to support and protect one another in a hostile male dominated environment. At what point did it become okay to base our value on the men's opinions of whether we are "hot or not".

We are better than that!
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