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  #1  
Old 10-02-2018, 11:04 AM
GreekOne GreekOne is offline
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An interesting read by a U of Michigan Recruitment Chair

Has anyone else read the U of Michigan's Recruitment Chair's take on her chapter's membership selection process? I graduated well before the advent of social media so our process in the "olden days" was certainly different. I guess this mirrors the all too common pnms who base their rankings entirely on superficial "tiers". Sad so many chapters have come to this. I do find her introspection at the end interesting.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...Z6xthshRM/edit
  #2  
Old 10-02-2018, 11:36 AM
clemsongirl clemsongirl is offline
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What horrifies me most is her claim that the national organization is actively involved in the process of ranking PNMs by looks and sorting active sisters into bump groups based on looks.
  #3  
Old 10-04-2018, 11:04 AM
robinseggblue robinseggblue is offline
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I can see these claims having more truth than not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaffyKD View Post
I can't see any national sending someone to monitor each and every chapter's recruitment in order for National to determine who stays and who goes.
A few of the Leadership Consultants are always traveling around.

If Michigan typically has rush at the end of September to beginning of October, then that's a little later than the typical time for a million rushes in the fall. In that case, I could see a national organization deciding to prioritize sending someone to Michigan's recruitment over a chapter that doesn't have anything special going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaffyKD View Post
If everyone is only based on their superficial appearance, why are there so many diverse chapters across the country? Not just by race, but body build, hair color etc. Something does not seem right to me about this article. As I said, maybe its just because I'm VERY old school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clemsongirl View Post
What horrifies me most is her claim that the national organization is actively involved in the process of ranking PNMs by looks and sorting active sisters into bump groups based on looks.
This is not Panhellenic of me, but it is my personal opinion. I'm just going to go out and say it. I am not pointing fingers and I don't care to discuss any specific thoughts on this, but I have noticed that some organizations do seem to have a lot of similarities re: reputation at a fair number of campuses from what I have seen and heard.

Yes, every sorority has more popular chapters on certain campuses and less popular chapters on other campuses, but it's not true that all GLOs are extremely, extremely diverse across the whole board. There are some organizations that tend to be more popular in general than others, and I think that their recruitment strategies certainly have a part to play. I do believe that GLOs tend to pull more similar than diverse girls across chapters. GLOs do recruit based on "values" of the organization after all.

I obviously don't have statistics to back this up nor do I know every chapter at every campus. And there are other variables at play too, I'll admit. I have made certain observations that lead me to think this way, but I'm certainly no expert in this.

For example, since we are discussing looks, I'll go out and say that if a GLO is known as the "hot sorority" at quite a few campuses...then I have always thought that it is likely someone at the top is prioritizing looks during recruitment.

I don't think that it necessarily has to be as overt as described in the document, however there are various ways that this can be done. I am not at all surprised if that is the case at some GLOs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iota_JWH View Post
Now, to a National org actually having the chapters pre rank based on looks? and then having an alumna be the enforcer? If this is true, I would be shocked and appalled. I do realize that ranks and tiers are TOTALLY based on looks, and the chapters are trying to appeal to 18 year-olds, who value that far more than they should.
Ding ding ding.

Like you said, tiers are generally based on looks. And they are in part determined by what fraternity brothers think of the girls.

So if a sorority prioritizes PNMs based on looks --> overall more attractive pledge classes --> overall higher "ranks" on multiple campuses --> more people want to join due to the reputation/exclusivity of the chapter

It is appalling, but it is also smart.
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Last edited by robinseggblue; 10-04-2018 at 11:22 AM.
  #4  
Old 10-02-2018, 11:46 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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I thought that her terminology made it definite to which chapter it was, or is that still speculation?

This is long ago enough that I don’t think I’m telling tales out of school, but our chapter and system was small enough that every sister (in my chapter anyway) voted on every PNM. I would have felt so - I guess disenfranchised is the word - to only be able to offer my input on such a small fraction of the women we were inviting into the chapter. But obviously this wouldn’t be expedient at large rushes, and when you only know what you know, you don’t miss anything.
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  #5  
Old 10-02-2018, 12:19 PM
oncegreek oncegreek is offline
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If you look at UM on that "other" website, the name of the chapter is revealed.
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Old 10-02-2018, 12:21 PM
DaffyKD DaffyKD is offline
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I'm very much old school. We discussed and voted on EVERY rushee (told you, I'm old school). It was not left to a committee, it wasn't left to an arbitrary number system, it was not prearranged.

I wonder how much of this is factual and how much of it is like the book "Pledged." I can't see any national sending someone to monitor each and every chapter's recruitment in order for National to determine who stays and who goes. If everyone is only based on their superficial appearance, why are there so many diverse chapters across the country? Not just by race, but body build, hair color etc. Something does not seem right to me about this article. As I said, maybe its just because I'm VERY old school.

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  #7  
Old 10-02-2018, 12:35 PM
UVASquirrel UVASquirrel is offline
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I wonder how rampant stuff like this is at the "big" competitive greek systems. It makes me wonder about what was going on behind the scenes at my school during recruitment. Of course, that was 30+ years ago and we didn't have a computerized system like they do now.
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  #8  
Old 10-02-2018, 12:57 PM
Iota_JWH Iota_JWH is offline
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I believe all sororities have rating systems, this is an effort to rationalize recruitment, (I think is it called Values Based Recruitment.) So the chapters don't just emotionally vote. That being said, as much as we try to do rational decisions based on facts, emotions often overrule. So, putting a ranking on will this person fit in or contribute to the chapter can be usefull if the ranking is based on rational judgement.

I am sure most chapters also determine who are their strongest rushers. And you don't want to overwhelm the PNMs with ratios of 5 to 1 in the later rounds. However, this past month I did spend quite a bit of time with a chapter during recruitment and did notice the actives that were "not needed"in the recruitment room were the ones that have fuller figures. This saddenend me, I wish the chapter coupld have worked harder to make everyone feel valuable during recruitment.

Now, to a National org actually having the chapters pre rank based on looks? and then having an alumna be the enforcer? If this is true, I would be shocked and appalled. I do realize that ranks and tiers are TOTALLY based on looks, and the chapters are trying to appeal to 18 year-olds, who value that far more than they should.
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Old 10-02-2018, 02:56 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Rating systems on various components have been around a long time. “Values Based Recruitment” is a silly buzz phrase that basically means get rid of the frills and have nothing but 3 hours of deep and meaningful conversations with rushees. (I’m sure someone is going to jump on me for being so cynical, but I just read 3 articles about it and I couldn’t find a clear and concise definition of what exactly VBR is and how it’s conducted.)
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  #10  
Old 10-02-2018, 03:01 PM
ForeverRoses ForeverRoses is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
Rating systems on various components have been around a long time. “Values Based Recruitment” is a silly buzz phrase that basically means get rid of the frills and have nothing but 3 hours of deep and meaningful conversations with rushees. (I’m sure someone is going to jump on me for being so cynical, but I just read 3 articles about it and I couldn’t find a clear and concise definition of what exactly VBR is and how it’s conducted.)
but your are forgetting that they added a CRAFT to embody the philanthropy!!!
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  #11  
Old 10-02-2018, 03:06 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Oh yes, silly me 🤣
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  #12  
Old 10-04-2018, 04:01 PM
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irishpipes irishpipes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iota_JWH View Post
I believe all sororities have rating systems, this is an effort to rationalize recruitment, (I think is it called Values Based Recruitment.) So the chapters don't just emotionally vote. That being said, as much as we try to do rational decisions based on facts, emotions often overrule. So, putting a ranking on will this person fit in or contribute to the chapter can be usefull if the ranking is based on rational judgement.

I am sure most chapters also determine who are their strongest rushers. And you don't want to overwhelm the PNMs with ratios of 5 to 1 in the later rounds. However, this past month I did spend quite a bit of time with a chapter during recruitment and did notice the actives that were "not needed"in the recruitment room were the ones that have fuller figures. This saddenend me, I wish the chapter coupld have worked harder to make everyone feel valuable during recruitment.

Now, to a National org actually having the chapters pre rank based on looks? and then having an alumna be the enforcer? If this is true, I would be shocked and appalled. I do realize that ranks and tiers are TOTALLY based on looks, and the chapters are trying to appeal to 18 year-olds, who value that far more than they should.
At the biggest Greek schools near me, the tiers are not based entirely on looks. There are a few middle-tier groups that are considered the "hot" chapters, and they are sort of looked down on (especially by the top tier) because they don't consider social status, "old money," grades, etc. I'm not saying the "top" groups are a bunch of old bags, but a lot of them are not the cutest, just the most impressive.
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Old 10-04-2018, 04:43 PM
panhelrose panhelrose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishpipes View Post
At the biggest Greek schools near me, the tiers are not based entirely on looks. There are a few middle-tier groups that are considered the "hot" chapters, and they are sort of looked down on (especially by the top tier) because they don't consider social status, "old money," grades, etc. I'm not saying the "top" groups are a bunch of old bags, but a lot of them are not the cutest, just the most impressive.
At my university, "tiers" definitely considered attractiveness, but a chapter needed to be well-rounded and couldn't rely on beauty for superiority. Chapters that had a reputation for "only" being hot and liking to party and had the lowest GPAs to support the stereotype were frequently criticized for not being more involved on campus, not being more academically focused, etc. Of course, plenty of members of those chapters were in honors societies and made the Dean's list, because stereotypes are just that.

I'll also add that schools like UMich aren't accepting unintelligent students. All the incoming students were involved in extracurriculars and are stellar applicants with an average GPA above 3.8. I doubt even the girls in the "hot" house are somehow significantly less intelligent than the girls in the "smart" house, but someone has to have the lowest GPA - which, to be fair, I don't know the GPAs of the UMich chapters so maybe this chapter also has the highest GPA!
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Old 10-02-2018, 03:50 PM
clemsongirl clemsongirl is offline
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The specific issues I have reading it again:
-the preranking of every PNM based entirely on their perceived attractiveness
-forcing sisters to rank each other based on perceived attractiveness, so that only the "best" sisters talk to the "best" PNMs
-the ranking of PNMs after each round based on how much they "fit" into the chapter, which by necessity means that the pledge classes recruited each year are all going to be homogenous in many meaningful ways
-the national orgs' endorsement of all this through the presence of their consultant, especially when she removed PNMs the chapter would otherwise have wanted to invite back

I imagine every chapter scores women in some way based on their conversations-I know mine did. That isn't controversial to me. What is controversial is the way in which it was done based entirely off of looks and ignored who the chapter members actually wanted to invite back. I know that no matter what a PNM looked like, if we'd wanted her as a member and she was otherwise qualified no one from our national organization would have stopped us from giving her a bid.
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Old 10-02-2018, 04:06 PM
panhelrose panhelrose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clemsongirl View Post
What is controversial is the way in which it was done based entirely off of looks and ignored who the chapter members actually wanted to invite back. I know that no matter what a PNM looked like, if we'd wanted her as a member and she was otherwise qualified no one from our national organization would have stopped us from giving her a bid.
This situation feels similar to ones with local orgs who broke off from NPC sororities decades ago because they were not, at the time, permitted to extend a bid to a PNM of another race/religion. I can swear up and down that my own chapter has always been diverse in race, religion, wealth, political thought, major, etc since I joined but I know that was not always the case. Chapters of my organization in the past made the decision to disassociate from our national body in order to bid a WOC, but if my chapter were faced with a similar challenge from our HQ, would we make the same decision? I truly do not know. I have to imagine a decision that serious would be nearly impossible for a group of collegiate women to make (Harvard comes to mind), and if this chapter's situation is accurately reflected in these posts, I can understand why the actives didn't immediately surrender their charter.
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