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  #16  
Old 11-07-2018, 11:26 AM
MaryPoppins MaryPoppins is offline
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Originally Posted by irishpipes View Post
Was it really necessary to take that shot at Theta? Theta enjoys a very strong national reputation regardless of what happened at Ole Miss. I don't think it's fair to extrapolate some regional problem based on one closure. Every NPC has weak chapters.
Thank you, irishpipes, for maintaining your wonderful annual NPC numbers report that cover the NPC world.
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  #17  
Old 11-07-2018, 11:31 AM
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thetalady thetalady is offline
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Originally Posted by Iota1086 View Post
My point was EZ was not the only chapter “below the Panhellenic total”, the reason Theta National disestablished the chapter. There are some very strong chapters in the south membership wise. But is that how you rate a chapter, by just above or below an average? Or do you also look at campus leadership, philanthropic hours, philanthropy fund raising, and academics?
Iota1086, I am trying to restrain myself. We are all grieving the loss of our home. Your comments are uninformed as to the true situation. And you know what? I don't feel like airing all of our dirty laundry publicly just to satisfy you. There are those of us who saw this closure coming several years ago. We know why it happened and were not entirely surprised. We are hurting and angry. We are supporting each other as best we can.

It matters far more what the situation and environment is at Ole Miss than other campuses. The Ole Miss Greek system is toxic, petty and vicious. How the Thetas held their heads up in that place for as long as we did is a testament to their strength of character.

The manner in how the closure was handled was thoughtless and unnecessarily cruel. I have no comment on that.
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  #18  
Old 11-07-2018, 03:32 PM
Iota1086 Iota1086 is offline
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Originally Posted by thetalady View Post
Theta HQ did not "take over" the house a few months ago. Management & maintenance of the house was given to a professional company that manages many Theta properties. Many of our houses are run by Fraternity Housing Corp. A house is a huge investment and we are finding that maintenance is better handled by professionals that volunteers without much experience.
The EZ deed was signed over to Theta National January 2018. They were to receive $1 million in renovations to the property as well as future management/maintenance . This is from Katherine Murphy, Director of College Services, Kappa Alpha Theta.
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  #19  
Old 11-07-2018, 04:39 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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I'm not usually this directly rude on GC, but IOTA1086 -put a sock in it...bless your heart.
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  #20  
Old 11-07-2018, 04:43 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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I'm not usually this directly rude on GC, but IOTA1086 -put a sock in it...bless your heart.
Thank you so much for making me laugh my buns off today. I severely need it.
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  #21  
Old 11-07-2018, 05:57 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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Thank you so much for making me laugh my buns off today. I severely need it.
My pleasure!
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  #22  
Old 11-08-2018, 12:02 AM
GreekOne GreekOne is offline
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Originally Posted by shadokat View Post
Average chapter size after Fall recruitment at Ole Miss was around 410 - Theta had 273 women. It's a shame that 91 women accepted bids to this chapter this fall, only for this to happen.
I don't know the campus culture at Ole Miss. My heart breaks for the Thetas that lost their home. But, as a gal who thrived in a chapter on a campus where our total was 65, I am surprised that at chapter with 273 members was not financially viable! Wow! It 's a different world!
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  #23  
Old 11-08-2018, 06:53 AM
naraht naraht is offline
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Originally Posted by GreekOne View Post
I don't know the campus culture at Ole Miss. My heart breaks for the Thetas that lost their home. But, as a gal who thrived in a chapter on a campus where our total was 65, I am surprised that at chapter with 273 members was not financially viable! Wow! It 's a different world!
I went to Carnegie Mellon, the Panhellenic now has 6 NPC members, with all between 69 and 75 sisters this year. When I was a student in the late 1980s, there were only 5 NPC members each with chapters of about that size.

(As expected the NIC fraternities varies significantly more, currently running from Phi Delta Theta at 95 to Alpha Tau Omega at 26)
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Last edited by naraht; 11-08-2018 at 06:55 AM. Reason: add NIC
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  #24  
Old 11-08-2018, 02:13 PM
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DGTess DGTess is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naraht View Post
I went to Carnegie Mellon, the Panhellenic now has 6 NPC members, with all between 69 and 75 sisters this year. When I was a student in the late 1980s, there were only 5 NPC members each with chapters of about that size.

(As expected the NIC fraternities varies significantly more, currently running from Phi Delta Theta at 95 to Alpha Tau Omega at 26)
Sorry I missed you at CMU, naraht. The year I was president (75-76), the five NPC chapters at CMU had 15-40 members each. I'm always astonished to see pledge classes at these large schools larger than our entire Panhellenic system <grin>.
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  #25  
Old 11-08-2018, 07:17 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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I posted this in another discussion about it but here you go.

Certainly not the level of "y'all suck so badly at being nice that your national president/exec board has to come in and tell you to knock it off" that Ole Miss is, but I have had the privilege of working with some chapters on different sides of Panhellenic toxicity.

Example: Let's say on campus, Kappa is the weakest chapter and Sigma is probably next coolest or middling slightly above Kappa but not much better than Kappa by any means.

OBSERVATION: THE GREATEST PERETRATORS OF TOXIC PANHELLENIC BEHAVIOR ARE NOT YOUR TOP TIER CHAPTERS. RARELY. The biggest perps were the middles and lower. The ones who have most to gain by Kappa not seeming "cool."


The chapters varied. Some were actively participating in it. Some were not participating in bullying Kappa, but rather doing nothing while other chapters behaved in a toxic manner.


BYSTANDER BEHAVIOR IS PROBABLY WORSE THAN BEING THE PERP.

Some of these girls were doing the bystander chapter thing of "Oh wow so glad that is not us." Hearing the tent talk, thinking how messed up it is, but not saying anything to dispel it. Seeing how other chapters talk about XYZ or DEF without saying anything.

This is what I always said (to those who were either perpetrating it or doing nothing as it happened to other chapters.) Based on a convo I had with the sister who works with our Panhellenic delegates:

You are only ever as strong as your weakest. Do what you can to build them up.

It is really easy to stand by and watch false info be spread about a chapter, let the tent talk about them get out of control because hey THAT BENEFITS YOU. Yes, believe it or not. It benefits you for everyone in recruitment to think Kappa sucks.

(Cue horror because like, we have never even done anything to Kappa. It's all DZ and Chi O doing that stuff. Or we are not even being mean we are just as small as Kappa.)

The idea that Kappa sucks does not really benefit the top tier chapter on campus. It benefits the middle so they prop up on it.

As long as everyone thinks Kappa sucks, people will see Sigma on the schedule and think "Oh no I got Sigma but hey at least it's not Kappa."

So when you hear something negative about Kappa, you let it slide. Hey, at least it's not you, and it makes middle and low tier Sigma look that much cooler. You may even say "Wow Kappa only got like 10 girls I wish they'd close."

What you don't see is that you are probably not that much bigger than Kappa and your entire idenity rests on being "not Kappa" in the totem pole.

So if Kappa closes, someone has to become the new Kappa.

Guess who the new Kappa is? Yep it's the Sigma chapter that stands by and goes "well at least we aren't Kappa." Or who lets Zeta openly mock Kappa. Or who laughs at fraternity jokes about about Kappa.

When you are in Kappa's spot (because you will be when Kappa closes) it will not feel as good.
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  #26  
Old 11-08-2018, 08:41 PM
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thetalady thetalady is offline
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Originally Posted by GreekOne View Post
I don't know the campus culture at Ole Miss.
Let me tell you a little about the campus culture at Ole Miss. A few years ago, NPC had to send in a team to talk to the entire sorority membership.... all chapters. The visit was prompted by the vicious, overly competitive behavior and attitudes of the sororities toward each other and fraternities toward some of the sororities. NPC had to tell them to treat each other nicely, for God's sake! As you can tell, it didn't make much of a difference.
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  #27  
Old 11-09-2018, 01:36 PM
GreekOne GreekOne is offline
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Originally Posted by thetalady View Post
Let me tell you a little about the campus culture at Ole Miss. A few years ago, NPC had to send in a team to talk to the entire sorority membership.... all chapters. The visit was prompted by the vicious, overly competitive behavior and attitudes of the sororities toward each other and fraternities toward some of the sororities. NPC had to tell them to treat each other nicely, for God's sake! As you can tell, it didn't make much of a difference.
That is truly unfortunate. I was more referring to the assessment that a chapter with 270+ members was not "successful" enough to survive, in Theta's eyes. I know it is heartbreaking to have any of our chapters be considered the "bottom house". We all have campuses where it is the case and it is certainly not enviable. On a campus where the tent talk is vicious, as you describe, even worse.

However, I know from personal experience that you can have chapters with under 50 members that provide rewarding experiences for those women. I might contend that smaller chapters provide closer relationships and stronger leadership opportunities than these chapters with 400+ members.

I know there is the financial piece and the numbers have to make sense. But, does the house at Ole Miss sleep 300? If not, it would seem to an outsider that a chapter with 90+ new members and almost 300 members in total, could have continued enjoying their sisterhood despite being the butt of fraternity men's jokes.

During my collegiate days, we had chapters on our campus that were closed when they finally reached under 10 members. But, 270+ seems like an awful lot of interested, involved members that lost their home for the wrong reason. Truly heartbreaking.
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  #28  
Old 11-09-2018, 02:13 PM
naraht naraht is offline
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Originally Posted by DGTess View Post
Sorry I missed you at CMU, naraht. The year I was president (75-76), the five NPC chapters at CMU had 15-40 members each. I'm always astonished to see pledge classes at these large schools larger than our entire Panhellenic system <grin>.
Were the Sororities in the University provided buildings beyond McGill/Boss/Hammerschlag at that time?
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  #29  
Old 11-10-2018, 05:42 PM
navane navane is offline
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Originally Posted by thetalady View Post
Let me tell you a little about the campus culture at Ole Miss. A few years ago, NPC had to send in a team to talk to the entire sorority membership.... all chapters. The visit was prompted by the vicious, overly competitive behavior and attitudes of the sororities toward each other and fraternities toward some of the sororities. NPC had to tell them to treat each other nicely, for God's sake! As you can tell, it didn't make much of a difference.

Maybe that team should have also made a visit to Cal Berkeley.
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