Quota too small

[carnation]

I was just paging through an old U of Arkansas yearbook and in the rush section, it said "This year, Panhellenic voted to limit sororities to 33 pledges per house..consequently, Bid Day meant more disappointments than usual as 623 women competed for only 264 spots." I was horrified! Knowing that system, I'm sure that at least 3 of the sororities wouldn't have taken quota, which means that even less "spots" were open.

It was a '78 yearbook so some of that year's rushees no doubt have daughters rushing now and UA Panhellenic now goes with NPC rules on setting quota. However, I can't stop thinking about the unpledged women. UAF wasn't big on open rush back in the day and the unpledged women probably never got a bid there. When we set an overly small quota--when so many women go bidless, does this create enemies of the Greek system? Do the women "get over it" and find happiness in other groups? Does anyone have any feedback?

[PenguinTrax]

Sounds like they weren't using NPC recommendations for quota setting OR it could be that those recommendations weren't in place at the time OR they were basing the quota on past recruitment events, knowing the average drop/cut rate, etc.

However, that does seem extreme.

[violets]

Carnation,
Thanks for posting this; your comments are very thought provoking. You asked, “…does this create enemies of the Greek system? Do the women ‘get over it’ and find happiness in other groups?”
I think the answers to both questions are yes. Every woman left bidless had parents that simply did not understand why their precious daughter was not extended an offer of membership, every woman left bidless had a least one friend who was still in High School and was put off by the thought of rushing when she heard of her friend’s experience, every woman left bidless had GDI friends in her dorm who’s worst suspicions of Greek life were confirmed by her experience. Maybe “enemies” is a strong word, but this situation certainly creates many people who have every right to question what is the real value of a system that can make so many unhappy (even if it’s only on Bid Day)? Many of these people never have any other experiences with Greek Life, so they are left with this one impression, and then the stereotypes.
Do these women “get over it,” the answer is yes. Is it forever a bad memory? The answer is probably yes to this too.
What is the answer to this? Honest discussions like this one, that start with recognizing that there is a problem to be addressed.
On a personal level I can see that alumnae involvement also helps enormously. I have to say that chatting and reading on GC has increased my commitment to my sorority and Panhellenic life ten-fold. Reading posts from yourself, justamom and Barbara has led me back to wanting to contribute to the organization that gave so much to me. I have learned so much here that I hope to pass on.
Hopefully other women will be also inspired and will help to address these issues through volunteering with their Sororities and Panhellenic.
violets

[AlphaSigLana]

I think that it does creat "enemies". Think about it sororities, at least to me, are like cheerleading, they represent: popularity, beauty etc, when one is cut some people will feel like they are worthless, not beautiful etc. It is like a sharp pain--how do I know? I was cut every year from the cheerleading squad-- from junior high to high school. No matter how many jokes people make about cheerleaders I still wanted to be one. I understand(my parents couldn't afford dance lessons when I was little--and dance is kind of good for cheerleading/poms) why I was cut, but it still hurts. It doesn't mean that if I have kids that Iwon't let them try out, but I know that everytime I meet a cheerleader I will compare myself to her. The same thing goes for sorority's that I was cut from.
So yes having such low numbers for quota is horrible!

[aopinthesky]

Carnation,
Yes, that does seem extreme and so hurtful in many ways. I was a collegiate in '78 and, although I didn't know a lot at the time about NPC rules, I don't think there were many. Rush (as it was called at the time) at my school, and the rules that governed it, was left to the whim of the Panhellenic Advisor. Most years, she set quota based on the number of girls who signed up for rush, and it never changed, regardless of how many dropped (or were dropped) during the week. This was very hard on the smaller chapters and lead to the ultimate demise of one of them, simply because there were not enough girls left at the end of the week for everyone to get quota.
I am so encouraged every time I read a thread on this board where a campus Panhellenic has worked hard to try to ensure that all groups had the same opportunity to get quota and that all PNM's had a better than even chance to find a greek home. There may be work left to do in improving the Recruitment experience for everyone, but we have come such a long way.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

I don't know if that severely small quota can make enemies, but it definitely leaves many young women disappointed and maybe even heartbroken. This severe rejection leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. I always feel bad when someone doesn't get the invitation or bid that she wants to the sorority that she wants. It's even worse when a majority of women are left completely without a bid. It could definitely make a 17 or 18 year old bitter.

[Pike4Life]

I would think that a purposely small quota would perpetuate the "elitist" stereotype that Greek organizations have. Not exactly the best public relations move...and yes, I think it does leave a lot of people with a bitter taste in their mouth. And then that bitterness spreads via word-of-mouth, and before you know it, you have all the horror stories about sorority rush and how cut-throat it is to get into a sorority.

[aephi alum]

Hmm... well, 78 (which is what I calculate quota would be for 8 sororities and 623 PNMs if no one dropped or was cut across the board) is quite a large new member class, so I can sort of understand their reasoning... but artificially lowering quota is just wrong, particularly if women are invited back all the way through pref and then told "sorry, we artificially lowered quota this year, and you juuuust missed the cutoff". I'd be bitter if something like that happened to me. If sororities want smaller NM classes, time to expand!

[sororitygirl2]

Artificially lowering quota does make sense on campuses where a huge number of girls drop out at preference every year... but this seems kind of odd. Since it was so long ago, I am sure things are better now...

[justamom]

This is a thought provoking thread. I can't say anything new about feelings and how they can cast a black shadow on Greeks- I'm feeling it in the pit of my stomach. Sometimes I feel that part of the problem lies outside the quota issue. You have the mindset of the PMN to think about as well.

IF we had a perfect system-
The alums back home would support EVERY GLO.
Campus sororities would support the others
Parents wouldn't drill a "legacy" or certain GlOs into their kids to the point they rush with a predetermined "image" in mind.
The PNMs would look at ALL the sororities and not just the ones their rush group is oooohing and aaaahing about. Yep, if things were perfect...
When you look at these as starting points, it comes down to the dilema of which comes first, the chicken or the egg?
You'd still have that time of change though, and change is slow.

AlphaSiglana-I know EXACTLY how you feel abut the cheerleading thing.

[UFRushee05]

Hi everybody! This is my first post and I just wanted to explain my situation with rush. Let me start off by saying that not getting into the sorority of your dreams is one of the most heartbreaking experiences in the world. I really wanted to get into a certain sorority at the University of Florida...now granted I made this house my favorite after round 2, so I gave each house an equal chance. I won't go into detail but after much excitement about joining a sorority, and many more rounds and interviews, I was dropped from recruitment! Needless to say I was heartbroken...I just couldn't figure out what I had done wrong. I literally thought about it night and day. Wondering, what could I have done that was so horrible...Why did they all hate me so much? What made me good enough to survive so many rounds to now be not good enough to be a sister. I went through a week of hell with no sleep and was the nicest person I could be, and it still wasn't good enough. Now you are all probably thinking, oh great, she's a greek hater now. BUT I'M NOT. My best friend got into the house I wanted, and I've tried so hard to be happy for her as she meets her new sisters, but sometimes it's so hard to meet them and wonder if they were the one who decided that I wasn't good enough to be a sister. But I'm trying, for her and for myself, to let go of the hurt and the hard feelings. I realize that it's not just one girl who decides and that the process it very complicated ...but it's so hard for me to understand how the people who made you think greek life was the greatest thing in the world, the very people who made greek life important to you in the first place, to be the same people who take it all away from you! It just seems so cold. It's like sisterhood was right within my grasp...and then I was dropped. But to answer you're question about this making me bitter...it hasn't. I have so much respect for people in sororities, for them and the work they do in the community. I feel that this process is not entirely their fault and it's like we're all victims of too many girls wanting to Go Greek...which is sort of a catch 22 isn't it? In order for sororities to survive, they must have this interest from PNM's. But in order for the PNM's to have a better chance of getting in, they hope that not a lot of people will rush.
On a cheerier note, sorry for all the gloom and doom, I just saw this thread and felt that you all should get an honest answer from and experinced reject, I am still interested in Going Greek. Once you get past all the horribleness of rush, I really like the idea of sisterhood! I am hoping to become a part of the Delta Zeta colonization here at UF. It all starts on September 24th...that is the open house(since I already saw the info presentation during rush this is the first meeting I need to attend). Any advice since things obviously didn't work out so well last time? DO you think I am crazy for trying to Go Greek again after being rejected?

Hopefully future Greek Love and all of mine~ Jenn

[justamom]

Hi, I hope this post is the FIRST of MANY, MANY more! You have shared with us the feeings that a lot of us were wondering about. I applaud you for being so open. You know, you're attitude is so wonderful, it's going to carry you far.

Sometimes, as hard as we try, there isn't ANY concrete reason why this girl is cut or this one is invited. This is especially true when large number of PNMs are going through recruitment.

I know the sororities probably wish they had a way to detect the real reasons girls were interested in Greek Life. Member retention is a problem that I've seen discussed on several threads. Every GLO is concerned with this issue. IF the actives could see into the hearts of all the PNMs, I wonder how dramatically things might change. I guess this gets to a part of what Carnation is saying about lowering quota-missing out on some PNMs who would be loyal, contributing members not to mention loving sisters.

I also am glad you are not bitter and hope that you do consider recruitment again as well as the new colony! Thank you so much for posting. I KNOW you have said what many feel and many have thought! Hope to see you around ALL of GC!

[IvySpice]

UFRushee05, my heart goes out to you. Sometimes I honestly wonder whether the joy of the successful rushees justifies the heartbreak of girls who are cut.

You are the farthest thing from crazy for still wanting to go greek after being rejected. You are acting like an adult. You are standing strong in the face of disappointment. You are making the best out of a bad situation. The crazy thing would be to let the sororities that turned you down destroy your college experience.

My one piece of advice is not to let your respect for sorority women distract you from the fact that they are just flawed human beings like everyone else, and sometimes they are influenced by factors that have nothing to do with sisterhood. Obviously, we will never know what happened in your case, but the reality is that in a competitive system, plenty of wonderful people get cut for shallow reasons, like they aren't as well-connected or trendily dressed or as physically fit as other PNMs. We don't talk about this ugly side very much on GC, but we should acknowledge that sometimes -- just sometimes -- these kinds of concerns are behind the decisions sororities make. Or, as JAM pointed out, there may not be any reason at all besides getting lost in the shuffle. I hope you will bear that in mind when you are tempted to believe that there must have been something wrong with you, or this wouldn't have happened.

Best of luck with DZ and with finding happiness in college. The maturity and unselfishness you're showing by working to be happy for your best friend suggests to me that you are going to find true sisters in college, even if you don't wear pins.

Ivy