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Risk Management - Hazing & etc. This forum covers Risk Management topics such as: Hazing, Alcohol Abuse/Awareness, Date Rape Awareness, Eating Disorder Prevention, Liability, etc.


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  #1  
Old 01-15-2019, 04:10 PM
APhi2KD APhi2KD is online now
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Rock Bottom?

GreekOne posted this elsewhere, but I think it deserves its own thread. Thoughts?
https://doctorgentry.blogspot.com/20...9gYj0TwzN8QyHs
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  #2  
Old 01-15-2019, 04:37 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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I agree with #1, but #2-#4 are really not news. If he thinks everyone in the 80s joined because of leadership opportunities, that Greek life was on the same page politically as the rest of the campus, and that Greek Affairs staff were paid well, he experienced the 80s on a different planet than I did.

The ridiculously shortened and homogenized pledge periods are a huge part of the problem, and because of them, this decline has been happening for far more than 10 years. To say that everything was fine when the millennials were in school and it has only plummeted in the last 10 years is delusional.
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  #3  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:44 PM
PhilTau PhilTau is offline
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The current serious and fatal problems seem to always be traced to (mis)use of hard alcohol at parties and informal gatherings. Yes, there were problems when beer and beer kegs were the beverage of preference at parties, but there did not seem to be many alcohol poisonings.

Also, there is one thing you can be sure about - if you get a large group of 19 or 20 year-old guys together (whether or not they are a fraternity) and let them make a decision on their own as a group, it is a pretty safe bet that whatever they decide will be the wrong choice. This has always been true, regardless of generational group.
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Old 01-15-2019, 06:35 PM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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Agree with 33.

But back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, fraternities made a "trash can punch", so named because it was mixed in a new trashcan. Usually made with Everclear. As A pledge, I was warned by older and wiser sisters to, under no circumstances, drink that. They also warned us never to drink from a drink we had set down and walked away from, from someone else's drink, or to accept a drink offered to us if in an open container. They were(are) good sisters.
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  #5  
Old 01-15-2019, 06:56 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Also agree!
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  #6  
Old 01-15-2019, 11:18 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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In addition to the grain punch we also had hairy buffalo which was “mix together all the half finished bottles sitting around and add red Kool Aid.”

But both of those things were special occasion things. We just plain didn’t have the money.
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  #7  
Old 01-16-2019, 02:38 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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I advise a chapter at a smaller FSL system, but I don't really see much of what the Blog states impacting our chapter in any meaningful way. I don't really buy much into the generational blaming thing. In my 2 decades since initiation, I can't say that our younger students are any more conflict averse and indecisive than we were 20 years ago. In fact, a self-critical look back to when I was an undergrad officer, I can think of quite a few times I regret not being more decisive in my governance roles and I can't point to any sort of increasing deficiency in that area.

While I've seen our initiates be essentially the same, institutional changes have taken a toll. In the last 5 years or so, I think we have become greatly more cognizant of sexual assault. I think that's a positive change. I

Over the last 20 or so years, while I haven't seen any change at all in problematic drinking behavior, institutions seem to be cracking down on social drinking of underage members. I think that's going to have some negative unintended consequences in the long run.

I don't see the politics and polarization at all though. Right this minute, our chapter is as diverse as it's ever been. No one cares about political affiliations and leanings. Allowing your chapter to become polarized towards one extreme or the other is eventually going to lead to a pretty toxic culture no one will want to buy into.
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  #8  
Old 01-17-2019, 09:06 AM
GreekOne GreekOne is offline
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I do think the advent of social media has adversely impacted the Greek experience. The move from kegs to hard liquor has made the drinking culture far more dangerous.

I can't explain or understand the phenomenon of hazing and alcohol related deaths. I wasn't hazed. The fraternity men that I knew that were did stupid, silly stuff but nothing that was life threatening. I sometimes wonder if this, like the tiers, is tied to videos or stories shared on social media. Do these kids feel like they need to outdo each other? I can't explain what is driving it. But, I am concerned about the future.

The campuses that my kids are on have collectively seen literally dozens of chapters closed in the past few years. Are administrators just more aggressive about enforcement because of the PR nightmare or are the chapters really engaging in far riskier behavior? Either way, it is concerning.
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  #9  
Old 01-17-2019, 11:50 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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The worst thing that ever happened was outlawing kegs, in much the same way that Prohibition had people drinking things that weren’t really drinkable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekOne View Post
I sometimes wonder if this, like the tiers, is tied to videos or stories shared on social media. Do these kids feel like they need to outdo each other? I can't explain what is driving it. But, I am concerned about the future.
You hit the nail on the head. It’s all about the insta, seeing and being seen. And it often has zero to do with feeling part of a group.

Look at some of the sorority chapter instagrams - they have dozens of pictures of women doing nothing remotely related to the sorority - what’s most important is if the picture is cute. And half the time they are solo shots, with no sisters nearby.
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  #10  
Old 01-17-2019, 04:49 PM
Rod D Rod D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekOne View Post
I do think the advent of social media has adversely impacted the Greek experience. The move from kegs to hard liquor has made the drinking culture far more dangerous.

I can't explain or understand the phenomenon of hazing and alcohol related deaths. I wasn't hazed. The fraternity men that I knew that were did stupid, silly stuff but nothing that was life threatening. I sometimes wonder if this, like the tiers, is tied to videos or stories shared on social media. Do these kids feel like they need to outdo each other? I can't explain what is driving it. But, I am concerned about the future.

The campuses that my kids are on have collectively seen literally dozens of chapters closed in the past few years. Are administrators just more aggressive about enforcement because of the PR nightmare or are the chapters really engaging in far riskier behavior? Either way, it is concerning.
Yes, the move from beer to hard liquor, especially flavored these days, is a problem not just in Greek Life. HS kids now put flavored vodka in water bottles and the adults don't even suspect anything out of the ordinary.

The hazing and alcohol related deaths are usually accidents (which doesn't make it right or acceptable). It's usually some "event" and the new members pass a bottle around. They may even be encouraged by the "brothers" to do it. (In my experience it has never been forced.) Things spiral out of control and bad decisions get worse.

There is now a move to ban hard liquor in houses by both the national organization and the schools. Probably a good first step. Second thing is many houses have done away with the "events" and the alcohol that goes with them. Once they do that, they have made big strides to having a safe new member experience.
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  #11  
Old 01-17-2019, 09:29 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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Doing away with the "events" simply means informal gatherings will happen off chapter property in conditions where the less organized the event is, the less it can be tied to the organization. Taking safety precautions such as keeping the party closed, hiring security, hiring a cash bar, etc., would all tend to make an informal gathering into a formal event.

It's just offloading liability. Not unlike what NPC orgs did regarding alcohol and parties. It's just that now, we're offloading the liability onto our members themselves instead of someone else.
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  #12  
Old 01-17-2019, 09:52 PM
Rod D Rod D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
Doing away with the "events" simply means informal gatherings will happen off chapter property in conditions where the less organized the event is, the less it can be tied to the organization. Taking safety precautions such as keeping the party closed, hiring security, hiring a cash bar, etc., would all tend to make an informal gathering into a formal event.

It's just offloading liability. Not unlike what NPC orgs did regarding alcohol and parties. It's just that now, we're offloading the liability onto our members themselves instead of someone else.
By "events" I'm talking about "rituals" and "traditions." Things like "big brother nights" or "sorority mother nights," etc. Things that are focused around the pledges. They are very high risk events. Not general parties. Parties usually have restricted guest lists, security and other measures to keep them under some control.
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  #13  
Old 01-18-2019, 11:40 AM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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Well we're talking past each other, then. I don't conceive of rituals and traditions as being risky at all. As a founder of my chapter, we actually had the forethought to build in some deeply rooted traditions where hazing and alcohol wouldn't fit in whatsoever. So when I think of "events," I think of parties. My alma mater only recently allowed alcohol to return to campus. To have alcohol at any formal event, however, requires safeguards which are so prohibitively costly that we may only have one such event each year.

That obviously doesn't mean that our collegians only drink once per year.

In the current climate, any sort of organized fraternity party not registered with the school will bring down sanctions. It will impact our FIPG insurance rating. It will require our undergrads to attend compulsory classes. What has happened is that there is now an environment where ANY safety precautions taken will be treated as the chapter organizing the event. So when undergrad members and their associates have informal get-togethers at private residences, they can't maintain a guest list. They can't hire security. They can't hire a cash bar. They can't pool resources to purchase anything. They can't hire a cash bar. We have a system of perverse incentives.

I'm sure the incentives are just as perverse on other campuses--and even moreso. Removing hard liquor from chapter houses will probably not save a single life. In fact, it'll remove the consumption of hard liquor to private residences, and likely will lead to more members driving impaired to return to their chapter facilities.. but we aren't liable for anything that happens when a member chooses to drink and drive, so why should we care?
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