News helicopters collide

ASUADPi · #1 07-27-2007, 10:47 PM

Two helicopters, one from KTVK channel 3, the other from KNXV channel 15, collided mid-air and crashed. All four in the helicopters perished. Here are links relating to the horrific tragedy.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/27/hel...ash/index.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19999896/

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070728/...opters_collide

Please keep the families of the deceased in your prayers along with the Phoenix community, this is really hitting us hard.

Senusret I · #2 07-27-2007, 11:46 PM

This really hurts my heart.

DeltAlum · #3 07-28-2007, 12:21 PM

This is a really terrible situation.

I've flown in TV News helicopters numerous times.

There have been a number of fatal news helicopter crashs here, but most of them were in the mountains, some of the most dangerous areas in the world in which to fly.

I've lost several friends in those crashes. One of the helicopters belonged to my former station here. It was on a search and rescue mission trying to assist local authorities find a small commuter airliner. The local news choppers do that a lot here. In another, a friend who was chief photographer at a competing station was killed when the helicopter hit a high tension line in a mountain valley. The same station lost a helicopter as it was leaving a high school championship contest on the eastern plains. It was snowing and they hit an electric wire -- I don't think there were deaths in that incident. That same station had two more crashs, one fatal when the machine crashed into Horsetooth Reservoir near Fort Collins and a non-fatal emergency landing (which totalled the chopper) in downtown Denver. In that incident, they lost power and did an auto-rotation into Cherry Creek right across the street from Denver Fire Station Number One (also FD HQ). Cherry Creek runs between multiple lanes of Speer Blvd., and major street downtown.

One final incident happened to a third station when its helicopter made an emergency landing in a snow storm on top of Wolf Creek Pass in SW Colorado. There were no casualities, but they had to try to hike out in very deep snow, before a news helicopter from Albuquerque found them. At the time, by best friend was news director at the Albuquerque station.

On the face of what I've said here, it would seem that news helicopters are very dangerous -- and to some extent, I guess that's true. I will echo what has been said elsewhere, though, that these pilots are among the most professional I've ever met. They are extremely cautious, but they fly in dangerous conditions.

The pilot from my former station is a Viet Nam veteran pilot with thousands of hours of flight time. A few years ago, he and a photographer were on a routine assignment shooting some highway construction when there was a bank robbery and high speed chase in which a police officer was killed. Our helicopter located the suspect and followed him. The police lost him, but the chopper didn't and after the suspect wrecked his SUV and kidnapped an elderly man after hijacking his truck, Copter 4 led the police to them, then landed in front of the getaway vehicle so police could catch up. The hostage was saved, but the suspect was fatally shot. All of that was caught on tape by our photographer. the pilot got a personal letter from President Regan. In fact, he recently re-enlisted and is either about to ship out to Iraq (he'll probably be one of the oldest pilots in the Army), or may already be there.

A final thought about safety. While there have been a number of news helicopter accidents, considering the huge number of hours they fly, it probably is fairly safe statistically. It's just that when there is an incident, fatal or not, it is very high profile simply because of who owns, operates or leases the copter.

My deepest condolences to the families and collegues at the TV stations in Phoenix (who are, to a large extent, also a family). I really do know what they're going through.

Here is a link to a sound bite from another of the Phoenix TV helicopters just after the crash. It's pretty dramatic.

http://usatoday.feedroom.com/index.j...y=FRsupt207256

ASUADPi · #4 07-28-2007, 01:46 PM

An eyewitness said, on camera, that he was eating lunch at Steele Park (he is a construction worker, working on Light Rail I believe) and he said that the blue chopter (ABC 15) was coming around and hit the channel 3 chopter that was stationary. Who knows though. Basically, the AZ republic said that when they (the pilots) are given clearance by the tower to be in the area, the tower then backs off and the pilots communicate with each other. A former pilot said that it is crazy up there because they are 1) communicating with the other pilots 2) communicating with their station 3) listening to the police scanner 4) giving live reports all at the same time. It can be pretty chaotic.

My heart goes out to everyone.

Tom Earp · #5 07-28-2007, 05:08 PM

This is was so sad to hear about!

All "Chopper Piolets" are trying to be careful. Air Controllers can only be so care full! I watch them everymorning and wonder?

DolphinChicaDDD · #6 07-29-2007, 01:59 PM

The whole thing was terrible. I had just been driving around to pick up lunch for the office, and saw the police chase. 10 minutes later, I'm up in my office eating lunch with my coworkers and watching all the helicopters and we saw the two collide. My office is a few blocks away, but it was still difficult to see. It did look like the blue one t boned the other helicopter. Not much at work got done after that...a few coworkers talked to the police, but yeah, it was pretty scary to see. And right before they hit, we were all talking about how many helicopters were up there and how it didn't look safe at all.

They had mentioned on the news that the police we thinking of charging the guy who started the chase with the deaths of the news people...that I'm not sure how I feel about.

DeltAlum · #7 07-29-2007, 02:29 PM

Police forces all over the country have adopted policies about when to abort a high speed chase for the safety of not only the officers involved, but also the general public.

Even though this is the first time I'm aware of that two news helicopters have collided, it may be time for news organizations to put competition aside and figure out a way for one station/copter to "pool" video. It shouldn't be too hard for several stations to receive anothers microwave signals simultaneously since many use the same frequency range, and simply tune to different channels within that range.

I know how careful these pilots are having flown with them, but when the pilot is also the reporter, it may be too much for one person.

PM_Mama00 · #8 07-29-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

An eyewitness said, on camera, that he was eating lunch at Steele Park (he is a construction worker, working on Light Rail I believe) and he said that the blue chopter (ABC 15) was coming around and hit the channel 3 chopter that was stationary. Who knows though. Basically, the AZ republic said that when they (the pilots) are given clearance by the tower to be in the area, the tower then backs off and the pilots communicate with each other. A former pilot said that it is crazy up there because they are 1) communicating with the other pilots 2) communicating with their station 3) listening to the police scanner 4) giving live reports all at the same time. It can be pretty chaotic.

My heart goes out to everyone.

I heard, maybe from the same guy you saw, that the one helicopter got too close and got sucked into the other one. A horrible story though.

AlphaSigOU · #9 07-29-2007, 04:34 PM

The main rule - and one rammed into us who's ever taken flying lessons - is to 'see and avoid'. Fly the airplane and keep an eye out for traffic and an ear open for traffic calls from ATC.

As an observer and scanner with CAP, I'm trained to keep my head on a swivel looking for traffic on the right side of the aircraft if I'm occupying the observer seat or the left side if I'm in the scanner seat.

DeltAlum · #10 07-29-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaSigOU

The main rule - and one rammed into us who's ever taken flying lessons - is to 'see and avoid'. Fly the airplane and keep an eye out for traffic and an ear open for traffic calls from ATC.

As an observer and scanner with CAP, I'm trained to keep my head on a swivel looking for traffic on the right side of the aircraft if I'm occupying the observer seat or the left side if I'm in the scanner seat.

Take that and add to it watching what's on your station's air, what your cameraperson is shooting, the event happening on the ground AND keeping a verbal description of everything else on the air and answering questions from the anchors.

I feel a lot better when there is a separate reporter onboard to handle those last items. It goes both ways, depending on whether the pilot can talk or not.

There are enough distractions for the pilot when they're in heavy traffic such as a situation like this one.

Tom Earp · #11 07-29-2007, 05:41 PM

We have one Chopper Pilot who does the reports and loves to get involved in chases if need be. But he has been doing for a very long time. The other three are Pilot driven and spotters/reporters on board.

Having flown in a small plane one time I agree with AlphaSigOU, boy was my head on the move alot!

While the sky is big in SE Ks. it only takes a moment to have a problem, it can happen.

While I never flew in one of our P D Choppers, I rode where they were parked and they were very little, not like on TV! Scarry!

One thing to remember, the choppers are on radar, I have heard Johnny talking to them in the middle of a report! That comes first of course.

No glide path on a chopper!

ASUADPi · #12 07-29-2007, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DolphinChicaDDD

The whole thing was terrible. I had just been driving around to pick up lunch for the office, and saw the police chase. 10 minutes later, I'm up in my office eating lunch with my coworkers and watching all the helicopters and we saw the two collide. My office is a few blocks away, but it was still difficult to see. It did look like the blue one t boned the other helicopter. Not much at work got done after that...a few coworkers talked to the police, but yeah, it was pretty scary to see. And right before they hit, we were all talking about how many helicopters were up there and how it didn't look safe at all.

They had mentioned on the news that the police we thinking of charging the guy who started the chase with the deaths of the news people...that I'm not sure how I feel about.

Okay I thought it was bad just watching what they showed on the news, but to be as close as you were. I just can't even imagine.

As for the man, they can charge because he was in the process of committing multiple felonies and if something occurs as a result of what he is doing he can be charged. So if instead when he ran the red light he caused a crash that killed two people, he could be charged with Vehicular manslaughter or higher because he was committing a felony at the time. Does that make sense?

It's almost the same as the people charged with the cop being killed. A cop was killed Friday night (Friday sucked in Phoenix) by a man who with his girlfriend went to a check cashing place with a bad check. The man shot and killed the officer but the girlfriend was charged with 1st degree murder as well, because AZ allows her to charged because she was committing a felony when the shooting occured.

I say this to give another example of how they can and will charge this man.

I actually feel bad for the county ADA. People are going to want "blood" (so to speak), so they are essentially put in a rock in a hard place. If they don't charge the guy, the community will be outraged.

But I also have to think that he deserves to be charged. If he had not stolen a car and committed a felony, those helicopters wouldn't have been up there following him. I very much believe their collision is his fault. I get that not everyone is going to feel the same way I feel though.