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  #46  
Old 08-18-2020, 01:36 PM
Cheerio Cheerio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna View Post
We used to never ask a PNM to find a rec. That was the chapter's job.
But when you have 2200 PNMs, you could have a crew of 30 working 24/7 all summer long and not be able to find recs on all of them. Asking PNMs to find recs helps.

BTW, it's pretty easy to see that a rec writer doesn't really know anything about the PNM.
Yes. As carnation has repeatedly reminded us this summer one of the responsibilities and privileges of sorority membership is using your social and community connections to learn of, and promote greek life to, quality high school and college-age women. This job usually falls equally on sorority collegians and alums, who will then write/revue the recs so necessary to the process.

When a campus uses deferred recruitment, the opportunity to become better acquainted with WOC who might be interested in NPC membership but have few NPC connections falls more toward sorority collegians. I believe the current generation of collegians is plenty anxious to have WOC join their sororities, just as there have been plenty of collegians during the past 70+ years with the same attitude.

For the benefit of those who currently doubt that WOC have not, until just now, been given a fair shake at NPC membership I can only state do your homework on the subject and be fair to those attempting to understand and gently correct your misreading of NPC history.

One can always hope we'll continue noting upward trends in the total number of WOC joining our NPC groups, but as carnation laments WOC sometimes have other logical ideas.
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  #47  
Old 08-19-2020, 12:55 PM
shadokat shadokat is offline
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As someone who just witnessed a dear friend's daughter go through recruitment at Alabama, the rec requirement is a MAJOR hurdle for women who aren't from in state, who don't come from the South, who are first in the family to go to college and I could go on. The rec, while we may not like to admit it, is a way to keep exclusivity alive, on a way larger scale, than any legacy policy ever could.

My friend's daughter had recs to many of the chapters at Alabama, and it didn't mean a whole lot. As a matter of fact, the two groups she had at the end, she didn't have recs for, and the organization she is now a new member of, she didn't have a rec for them.

So carnation, and you know i love you, but the rec didn't help her one bit in the sororities she did have them for, and didn't matter in the ones she ended up with. Does that make sense and explain why they exist then? I don't think so.
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  #48  
Old 08-19-2020, 01:04 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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What happens behind the scenes if a girl doesn't have a rec and the sorority loves her: they get an alum to come write one based on her application. At a lot of schools, the need to do this is rare because most girls have recs but I can see how Bama would need to do that. That could be what happened!

I think that often these days, we use them as a way to warn a chapter away from a girl who could be a big risk--might get dragged in drunk most nights or in the case of one girl I dealt with, post a video of herself peeing on our main street on New Year's Eve. We need to know something about the women we pledge! No one wants their charter jerked or even penalized because of something a girl did on her own.

I'm glad she pledged!
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  #49  
Old 08-19-2020, 01:56 PM
KiteChick KiteChick is offline
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Originally Posted by Jen View Post
But they aren't just introducing those girls - they're introducing every PNM. The small-town/out-of-state girls are still lost in the shuffle.



I feel recs went from being a way to introduce someone special to the chapter to something everyone has to have, therefore rendering them useless.
I agree with the concern of the current state of getting recs. I don't disagree with having alumnae/collegian provide great insight on a potential member. To me, the value of a rec is lost when a member HAS to get them (and saying 2 is better than 1, etc.)

How are recs used by chapter members? Ideally, they would all be read and utilized as part of the process. Can a rec that comes in at the 11th hour truly be useful if you are inundated with tons of them at the same time and recruitment is about to start?

Are recs used as part of the selection process. For example is it just a box that is checked that member met that requirement (a check for 1, another check for 2, etc.) Is is utilized as bonus "points", again, not taking into account what information is provided, just that a PNM fulfilled that obligation.

I say these things not to downplay recs, but to look at their value. If I am writing a rec for my friends daughter that I have known since birth and I think she is fabulous and would be such a great addition to a chapter and that rec is of equal value to a rec that was written by someone who really didn't know their PNM, just doing it because they need it...where is the value in my rec. If all members "have" to have a rec for some groups (and in some cases multiple recs), what value is it bringing to the process?

Also, some groups may not have options to note concerns about a PNM, some do, but some don't. Or, what if a rec was done and it was to share concerns but the chapter didn't properly review and then gave positive credit to the PNM for obtaining a rec?

Long story short...I believe there is value to alumnae and active collegians being able to provide input on a PNM they know (not just 30 minutes so she can get a rec), but somehow, we need a better system that puts the appropriate value upon that information vs. it just being a box that is checked off so that a member can proceed with the recruitment process.
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  #50  
Old 08-19-2020, 02:56 PM
AnchorAlumna AnchorAlumna is offline
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Originally Posted by shadokat View Post
As a matter of fact, the two groups she had at the end, she didn't have recs for, and the organization she is now a new member of, she didn't have a rec for them.
You forget that we are still seeking recs for girls who don't have them! Plenty of girls pledge a sorority for which they think they don't have a rec, but they do.

By the way, this is how we Southerners find recs for people we don't know!
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1677498515738768
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  #51  
Old 08-19-2020, 05:40 PM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna View Post
You forget that we are still seeking recs for girls who don't have them! Plenty of girls pledge a sorority for which they think they don't have a rec, but they do.
But again, the question is: then what's the point?

If the PNM didn't get a rec herself and still received a bid - and she had an "unknown" rec written for her - it seems like the checking of a checkbox KiteChick described above.

Does that really add any value, or is it a simple "The chapter likes this girl, a rec is required, so here it is!"?
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  #52  
Old 08-19-2020, 09:11 PM
AnchorAlumna AnchorAlumna is offline
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It's not an unknown. It's a rec by someone, usually from her hometown or with a connection there, who will check her out with, say, a team coach, a friend who goes to church or dance class with her, a teacher at her school.
Check that video. It's humorous, it's exactly how we do it!
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  #53  
Old 08-20-2020, 01:32 AM
robinseggblue robinseggblue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna View Post
It's not an unknown. It's a rec by someone, usually from her hometown or with a connection there, who will check her out with, say, a team coach, a friend who goes to church or dance class with her, a teacher at her school.
Check that video. It's humorous, it's exactly how we do it!
The Southern grandma video was pretty funny!

1) This is definitely possible in a smaller town, but harder in a larger city. Sure, this way could dig up more dirt for girls from smaller towns/cities, but not every community is tight-knit enough for this to be feasible without a ton of digging.

I’m Jewish, and I could probably find out something about a PNM in my city using “Jewish geography,” but I could see it taking a lot of legwork depending on what denomination & congregation the PNM is part of. And of course, I’d be helped by the fact that Jews are a much smaller group compared to other cultural or religious groups. Not all Christians know each other. Not all people of the same culture know each other. Maybe the alum chapter in my city simply doesn’t have a connection to the PNM’s teacher’s sister-in-law’s realtor (random example).

Is there any issue in anyone’s mind that this type of process would likely be more feasible in smaller towns and cities? Or might be less feasible for PNMs who might not be part of tight-knit communities for whatever reason or may have moved around a number of times?

And at what point is the cost of effort expended too much compared to the bits of information gleaned? Is there such a point or is it always worth it?

Is there a point at which the alumnae may cold call people from organizations on the PNM’s resume?

I haven’t been personally involved in this type of effort, since I’ve only written recs when contacted or connected with a PNM through someone. So I’m honestly wondering.

2) If you’re already going to someone else to discuss details to put in a recommendation, why not cut out the middle man (sorority alumna) and simply get the recommendation from the source(s)? The PNM can coordinate that.

It’s even possible for the sorority to come up with some sort of standardized letter of recommendation. This looks more like a specific questionnaire within the rec form that asks for quantitative evaluation of specific attributes of the PNM. For example: “Compared to their peers what %ile would you rank this student on leadership, responsibility, special talents, etc.”

I know many are opposed to the suggestion that a non-alumna may be fit to write a sorority rec, but I honestly don’t see an advantage in forcing an alumna rec for someone who doesn’t have alumnae connections if the alumna asks their teacher, coach, etc. That only reinforces to me that these are reliable people to get this info from, so why not make the process easier on the PNM without connections (and the alumnae who have to ask around) by just getting the letters directly from those people?

Even if this suggestion were taken, it wouldn’t have to be an all or nothing. An alumna could compile the info with regard to any secret sorority-specific info. The alumna would have the contact info of the recommender so that they could easily call them for a chat.

Last edited by robinseggblue; 08-20-2020 at 01:41 AM.
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  #54  
Old 08-20-2020, 06:11 AM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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Small town girl here (southern) I had no problem finding recs because all the ladies my mother was in clubs with, or who drove the kindergarten car pool when I was in kindergarten, or taught me in school or Sunday school, or were our neighbors, or whose kids I grew up with, stepped forward to write one for me. So really, a small town girl may even have a greater chance of finding a rec because the networking is easier.
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  #55  
Old 08-20-2020, 07:02 AM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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It's surprising the number of PNMs who tell me they never thought to ask teachers! They all went to college. if they aren't Greek they probably know someone who is.
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  #56  
Old 08-20-2020, 10:05 AM
Cheerio Cheerio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna View Post
You forget that we are still seeking recs for girls who don't have them! Plenty of girls pledge a sorority for which they think they don't have a rec, but they do.

By the way, this is how we Southerners find recs for people we don't know!
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1677498515738768
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna View Post
It's not an unknown. It's a rec by someone, usually from her hometown or with a connection there, who will check her out with, say, a team coach, a friend who goes to church or dance class with her, a teacher at her school.
Check that video. It's humorous, it's exactly how we do it!
At 2min 51 seconds in the video: Is SuperGrandma wearing a Zeta Tau Alpha badge as a ring?
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  #57  
Old 08-20-2020, 12:13 PM
robinseggblue robinseggblue is offline
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Originally Posted by Cheerio View Post
At 2min 51 seconds in the video: Is SuperGrandma wearing a Zeta Tau Alpha badge as a ring?
To me it looks like a round clear stone in a bezel setting surrounded by a halo and with a gap between the halo and the centerstone.
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  #58  
Old 08-20-2020, 01:13 PM
Cheerio Cheerio is offline
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I've got to get a bigger screen! Thanks.
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  #59  
Old 08-20-2020, 02:11 PM
shadokat shadokat is offline
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Video is funny!

Her mother and I got her 8 of 17 recs for the houses. If they found something else, I guess all the better, but it sort of defeats the purpose of the rec if you ask me. I'll stand by my "recs = exclusivity" rant for awhile. But I'm just a northeast bitch, bless my heart

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna View Post
You forget that we are still seeking recs for girls who don't have them! Plenty of girls pledge a sorority for which they think they don't have a rec, but they do.

By the way, this is how we Southerners find recs for people we don't know!
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1677498515738768
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  #60  
Old 08-20-2020, 05:16 PM
robinseggblue robinseggblue is offline
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I got an email from [Alpha Phi] nationals this year stating that recs cannot be considered mandatory and rec status cannot be used against a PNM.
Saw this posted on Reddit by someone who self-identifies as an Alpha Phi. I understand if it's too private to confirm since it does fall under membership selection, but I would be interested to know if this is true.

It sounds like a good change for inclusivity, but I'm also a northeast bitch sitting with shadokat.
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