Coat of Arms vs. Crest

[agzg]

I wish I were a heraldry nerd... maybe that'll be my "homework" over "thanksgiving break."

[naraht]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

This heraldry nerd thinks your second possibility is correct.

Could the Heraldry nerd in question look at our Coat of Arms at
http://www.apo.org/show/About_Us/His...tions/Insignia
and let me know if Alpha Phi Omega's Coat of Arms even *has* a crest? The only thing above the open helmet is stars.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by naraht

Could the Heraldry nerd in question look at our Coat of Arms at
http://www.apo.org/show/About_Us/His...tions/Insignia
and let me know if Alpha Phi Omega's Coat of Arms even *has* a crest? The only thing above the open helmet is stars.

The heraldry nerd in question at your humble service.

Yes, APO's arms have a crest, but before I try to describe it, can I ask a question? Are the rays that eminate from behind the helmet silver or gold? I've seen them both ways in various pictures, and am trying to figure out whether and how to take them into account.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Well looking at the Psi U website, they define the crest as the owl and the fasces both.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The heraldry nerd in question at your humble service.

Yes, APO's arms have a crest, but before I try to describe it, can I ask a question? Are the rays that eminate from behind the helmet silver or gold? I've seen them both ways in various pictures, and am trying to figure out whether and how to take them into account.

Um. In practice, Black if it's on a white background, Gold if it's on a black background, I think. Where have you seen Silver?

For the purposes of reproducing the crest, they are a very minor part. (not mentioned in the explanation of the coat of arms at all) For example, having the 12 drops in the center left be gules is more important.

Randy

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by naraht

Um. In practice, Black if it's on a white background, Gold if it's on a black background, I think. Where have you seen Silver?

They looked silver to me in the example to which you linked above, but maybe that was just because they were small/narrow enough that with the white, the gold (or black) looked silver.

To answer your question, I would say that the rays and stars together form the crest. Assuming that the logical color for the rays is gold and that black is an occasional substitute for the sake of contrast, and going by the arms as they appear at The Wiki, I think I would blazon the crest this way:

A demi-glory or, four mullets fimbrated of the same in chevron.

Any other heraldry nerds want to take a stab at it?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Well looking at the Psi U website, they define the crest as the owl and the fasces both.

But looking at your website, I notice that only the owl is used (on a torse of school colors, it appears) as the crest in chapter arms. Still though, I think the fasces are part of the crest of the fraternity arms.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

But looking at your website, I notice that only the owl is used (on a torse of school colors, it appears) as the crest in chapter arms. Still though, I think the fasces are part of the crest of the fraternity arms.

The torse is chapter colors, which can be but is not always school colors. Then again the chapter arms are a much simpler version then the fraternity arms.

[chopperdude]

gee, you all are pretty sharp on this stuff, and i am not sure i understand all of it. i need to go to the lca pedagogus book and try to understand how ours works. maybe someone can explain it a bit more for me. thanx. i thought the coat of arms which denoted the house of the group was the sheild and the hangings on the side were the capes or robes. the sheild as i was told have symbols that designate certain things that have meaning for the house of of the king or lord of the manor/estate. not sure what you are refering to as the crest other than the helment we have. yes, i have read and reread this thread. Still cloudy.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

The torse is chapter colors, which can be but is not always school colors.

Ah, thanks.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by chopperdude

gee, you all are pretty sharp on this stuff, and i am not sure i understand all of it. i need to go to the lca pedagogus book and try to understand how ours works. maybe someone can explain it a bit more for me. thanx. i thought the coat of arms which denoted the house of the group was the sheild and the hangings on the side were the capes or robes. the sheild as i was told have symbols that designate certain things that have meaning for the house of of the king or lord of the manor/estate. not sure what you are refering to as the crest other than the helment we have. yes, i have read and reread this thread. Still cloudy.

Hi Tom!

To answer your question though, the Crest is what is suspended over the shield of the arms. In the case of LXA, it would be the Crescent and Cross.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

They looked silver to me in the example to which you linked above, but maybe that was just because they were small/narrow enough that with the white, the gold (or black) looked silver.

To answer your question, I would say that the rays and stars together form the crest. Assuming that the logical color for the rays is gold and that black is an occasional substitute for the sake of contrast, and going by the arms as they appear at The Wiki, I think I would blazon the crest this way:

A demi-glory or, four mullets fimbrated of the same in chevron.

Any other heraldry nerds want to take a stab at it?

That would be quite fun in dealing with some brothers who insist on calling it the crest. Showing just the stars and the rays and indicating that *that* is the crest.

On the bright side, I did finally get the person in the National Office in charge of Graphical Standards to look at it for next year's graphical standard guide. And if I don't get the answer I like, I'm going to propose a resolution for the December 2010 convention.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by naraht

On the bright side, I did finally get the person in the National Office in charge of Graphical Standards to look at it for next year's graphical standard guide. And if I don't get the answer I like, I'm going to propose a resolution for the December 2010 convention.

Good luck!

[naraht]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Good luck!

Thank you. And if you'd like to take a crack at the entire coat-of-arms, I'll be happy to fill in any details. But I'd feel more comfortable doing that over PM, even if the final result is posted here...

[chopperdude]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Hi Tom!

To answer your question though, the Crest is what is suspended over the shield of the arms. In the case of LXA, it would be the Crescent and Cross.

i see what you are saying now. thanx. i was not sure from some of the earlier posts.
apo is great example of a neat crest. where do you find this type of info.