My request for legal advice

KABillyMac · #1 03-22-2002, 09:59 AM

Let me first insert alittle humor here, cause there wont be any in this post. My dog Dually and I got sprayed by a skunk last night. Yall know Dually goes everywhere I do, and let him out of the truck last night and he goes into some bushes, me in tow, and boom, he gets us sprayed by this little skunk. My office reaks right now, cause I only have two pairs of shoes, the boots on my feet, and the shoes I wear with my suit and tux. I dont think I could have pulled off levis and a tshirt this morning and a black pair of suit shoes or whatever. My house reaks, my office reaks, my dog reaks, my truck reaks, hell even my fridge reaks where I opened the door to get a beer and dually stuck his nose in to see what I was doin. Anyway..........

I get home last night, drop the truck off, wash the dog, change clothes, grab the half case out of the fridge, and he to one of the brothers house across the creek from me. 3 of them live there, and we all stayed in town for break, so Im on my way over there to watch the rest of the kent state game, and hope some women come over when downtown lets out. These 3 guys just got evicted, and we where telling a hunting story, and I remember that I let one of them borrow a gun from me when rabbit season opened in November. Not just any gun. A Remington 1100 20 gauge, engraved. Dad got it for me when I was 10. I killed my first rabbit with it. It means alot to me. Im a good person. This chainsaw wielding stuff you read on gc, thats me, but im also one of the most kind and giving people you will ever meet. I hadnt thought twice about my gun being over there. They are brothers, and brothers that I trust, alot. I knew the gun was ok. Besides, I had a arsenal at the house anyway so I hadnt need that gun for rabbitt this year.

One of the brothers that lives there is a compulsive liar. And I mean a bad bad liar. I overlook it, its just a huge personality flaw he has. I fish, hunt, and play ball with him, I just overlook the personality crap. Course I never ask him any questions so he has no reason to lie to me.

We will call him L. So as J and I are talking, (J is his roomate) I ask him where my 20 gauge is. He says he doesnt know, so we begin lookin around the house. I find the case under L's bed. Empty. Searched the house, nothing. Blood pressure went up about .5 clicks. Brother T, who lives across the creek also comes in the back door, in the midst of our search. I said, "T, you seen my 20 gauge?" He paused for a minute, and says what kind is it? I say Remington. He said did it have a white mark on the stock? I said yeah, thats it.

His response "L sold it to me"

Blood pressure up 100 clicks.

We all sit down, and T starts telling me the story. Apparantly L offered the gun to him for 150 dollars, said hed had it a long time nad needed to get rid of it. So T tells his uncle, and after assuring his uncle that its not hot, his uncle buys it. This is a 800 dollar gun yall. And im not bragging, im just saying, yall like tiffany braclets and kate spade bags, I enjoy fine firearms. We are the same people...........

The other brothers in the house are staring at me with their jaws on the ground. Waiting for me to detonate. I calmy request J to get L who is at home in the mountains, on the phone, and hand it to me. I say, "L where is my 20 gauge." He says, "its right here chainsaw" I said " you didnt sell my gun?" He said "no, i brought it home with me" I calmly said "Bring my gun when you come home saturday" and hung up. Somehow kids, I just dont think that he has my gun.......

I can get the gun back from T's uncle i think. I will take my registration, talk to him man to man, and tell him what the gun means to me, and hope he has some honor and lets me buy it back.

Question. What is the law of possesion? How many days? Whats the fastest way to get my hands on my gun registration?

Side note. L is a cousin of one of the biggest, richest, greasest lawyers in the state. This slimeball also happens to be the father of my 5 year ex. Did I ever tell yall about my nymphomaniac multi million dollar highschool caniving shit compulsive liar ex girlfriend? Probably not. My legal battle could get ugly, but dad is packin a legal team too, but if it goes into the mountains, if this does go to court, I dont think we can pull it off. If they come down here in the bottoms, we got em licked.

Any legal advice yall have is greatly appreciated. As always.

DGPhoney · #2 03-22-2002, 10:40 AM

geesh Kabillymac thats a lot of drama but understandable though. It's your gun, you didn't sell it to A.L and or L's Uncle, theres no writen argement that you sold it to the parties and you still have everything else still registered in your name-i.e. gun registration. Also you have witnesses that were there when everything unfolded as you heard what had happened to your gun.
Also I think if you do talk to his uncle or anyone else who might have the gun, whatever happens (like if he decides to give it back to you) make sure you get something in writing in case they try to flip the scenario on ya.(sadly enough people do that as well) Maybe you should also show the uncle or whoever has it, the actual retail price of the gun, my older brother has one similar so I truly know they are expensive, worth a lot more then 150.
Well I hope that helps some, and that your blood pressure goes back down and you get your gun back without any drama.
Good Luck
DGP~Honey~

AXO Alum · #3 03-22-2002, 11:20 AM

Regardless of how you get your gun back, I hope that you will, and that you will still find a way to take it out on his behind.

That is ridiculous! And you shouldn't have to defend yourself about the value of that gun - although I did laugh about the reference to the Kate Spade bag

Let us know what happens after tomorrow when he will obviously show up without your gun.

I think that the Uncle will be more than willing to give your gun back. He should get his money back from the guy - not you. Especially after you can prove that the guy had no right to sell it. Like I said - I'm sure the Uncle will be reasonable. Keep us posted.

Peaches-n-Cream · #4 03-22-2002, 11:41 AM

I think that you should get out your chainsaw and go medieval on his a$$!

Seriously, you have registration papers that prove your ownership of the gun so don't worry too much. Hopefully, he will act like your brother and return the gun especially if your whole fraternity puts a little peer pressure on him.

shadokat · #5 03-22-2002, 12:11 PM

Well, let me just say that L is a major dickhead, and I'd kick his ass big time. That being said, yes, the gun is yours. But, the guy who bought it isn't obligated to give it back to you. If you want a guarantee that you'll get the gun back, you report that the gun was stolen by L. and then sold to the uncle. The police will go in and confiscate the gun as stolen goods, and you'll have your gun back. Of course, it will probably go to trial, and all of this will come out there, and it will be for a judge/jury to decide, but I'd be willing to bet that you'd win.

Now, as for the uncle, I don't know...I mean, he's already asking questions like "is the gun hot, blah blah?" What kind of upstanding guy is he? I'd get L. to get the money he got from his uncle, take the money to him and get your gun, which he then returns to you. You shouldn't be buying your gun back. In the eyes of the law, L. stole it, and sold it, which in criminal speak is larceny and sale of stolen goods.

Good luck, and I'll make sure never to loan out my Kate Spade bag

KABillyMac · #6 03-22-2002, 12:12 PM

As far as going medievil on his ass, yall know me and thats what I WANT to do (oh God, you have no idea how much.....) but here is the thing, let me give yall a little background on me, as relationships are not something that I talk about on here, I more enjoy reading others stories.

In my previous post I mentioned my 5 year ex. That was my highschool and 1 year college sweetheart. It was a completely unhealthy relationship, held together purely by unbelievable sex and popularity. We rushed together, yadda yadda. Im from the farm, shes a millionares daughter. It just wasnt gonna work. Right after her i met my new ex, and that lasted 4 years. There was about a few month span between the two. But when I met this new ex, she was so much diffrent. Honest, trustworthy, and she made me feel like someone, and not as a object all the time. Unfortunatly, a few months ago, I began to neglect the fact that she would always be there. While I was out running with the boys, she was at home watching tv. NOt my choice, but hers. 4 years of neglect weighs on a woman. She left. Best thing I ever had. But you live and you learn from situations like that. You gotta get burned a few times before you can cook a good steak.

So thats 9 years of a young mans life consumed in 2 women. And now, 3 months into being single, I feel like at sometimes, I just snap when I get mad. Moreso than when I was young. I mean for Gods sakes, I chainsawed a tv in half with a chainsaw. And I didnt even tell you guys about what I did to the lawnmower at that party when it wouldnt start.......

Anyway this all leads to something, believe it or not. About a month ago a Panhell girl from campus asked me out. Great girl, some bagage, but nothing major. We dated a little, but right now Im not healed, ya know? And in a drunken rage one night that girl looked at me, and told me that I need anger management. Floored me. I was speechless. When I get angry, people part like the red sea and let me go, no one will even get near me let alone give me advice. So I took it. Shes right. I want to take this whole gun situation and do it up backwoods, but this time, im gonna use my head, go through all the right steps, and let it work itself out. And if it dont, ahem, ok, yeah well. Trust me, Im gonna work it out one way or the other, dont fret about that.

Just a little about me.

Anna1971 · #7 03-22-2002, 12:46 PM

Between your dog, Dually, riding in your truck, smellin like a skunk, and your two pairs of shoes, hunting, rabbits, guns, a city slick lawyer, a millionaire ex-girlfriend... I've not only got the soundtrack to the Beverly Hillbillies going through my head but also an idea for a great movie of your life!

Pack your bags BillyMac and head out to L.A.- you have one hell of a story to tell!

KABillyMac · #8 03-22-2002, 12:49 PM

Everyone should get to spend just one day around me, I swear youll never laugh as hard in all your life.

justamom · #9 03-22-2002, 03:03 PM

FIRST_about the skunk-soak EVERYTHING, even YOU, in tomato juice! They say it will neutralize the odor...but if you're a hunter, you probably know that!

Is a gun registration like a car registration? If it still has your name on it, then it wasn't sold through the proper channels.
It doesn't seem likely though...

Maybe the uncle will be a "man" about the situaton and reurn it to you, but then SOMEBODY is out $100.00! (Unless it kept going higher as it exchanged hands)

Where is greeklawgirl??? I'm so sorry this happened to you...

AXPAlum · #10 03-22-2002, 09:47 PM

KABillyMac,

I'm a law student so I can give you quick advice on this classic torts case. The short and obvious answer is yes, the gun is registered to you, it was sold without your knowledge, it's called conversion of chattels. Basically even if T's uncle believed that when he purchased the gun that it was not stolen, it doesn't change the fact that he is a converter. He did not have title to the property (gun) and therefore would be liable to return the gun or pay its reasonable value. This situation is pretty similar to a case we studied in the begin of our first year, Prosser v. Keeton, it was a case of a stolen watch. I won't bore anyone with the details, but it also discusses good faith purchasers and the balance of social policy.

Now the question remains if you'd rather go medieval on this guy or take him to civil court. The choice is yours, hope all goes well

AXPAlum

Hootie · #11 03-22-2002, 10:06 PM

Why the legal advice? He can't go after you...and clearly you shouldn't go after him. Simply stop being his friend and that's all you need to do. I can't believe some people. Not to mention the fact that he sold something that WASN'T HIS TO BEGIN WITH!!!!

I'm sorry you're in a tough situation. I honestly hope you get your gun back without hassle. It's funny but today I was watching Family Matters and Laura sold her Grandma's quilt at a garage sale - even though her Grandma said not to. Anyway, turns out the quilt dated 200 years of their family history. So Laura and her father go to see the woman who bought it and she worked at some museum and was selling it for $3000!! With tears in her eyes, Laura explained the history and meaning of the quilt. The lady was resluctant, but finally gave it back. I believe most people follow a good code of ethics. Hopefully this Uncle will also!

Good luck!

Hootie

Jeff OTMG · #12 03-23-2002, 08:43 AM

Good job AXPAlum. The police may not accept it as a theft report and your option to recover would be a civil matter, conversion as AXPAlum mentioned. You can ask for things to be put right. I think that you have over valued a 20ga 1100, unless it is a special model. All 1100's are lightly engraved on the receiver. This photo shows the engraving on a standard 1100 20 ga.:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/smpics/976220361-2.jpg

Now if it is engraved with gold inlays (pigeon grade for example) it would be worth substantially more than $800. Used is about $400-$500 for a standard grade 100 try this link:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/search.cg...2251&state=All

This particular shotgun has additional sentimental value to you which means that only THAT shotgun will satisfy you.

Proving ownership will be difficult as I don't believe that Ky has gun registration. You may have filled out a federal 4473 form (yellow sheet) when it was purchased, but that is retained by the selling dealer, never filed with the state or federal govt. The original receipt from when you purchased it and testimony from people who know that the gun is yours and have known it to be in your possession for many years would be helpful to prove ownership.

Hopefully the 'thief' will bring it with him when he returns. Good luck.

One other thing. Remember that you are responsible for the guns you own. If someone where you left the shotgun accessible used it to 'go postal' you have some degree of liability. Remember the girl in Colorado who bought the guns for the murderers at Columbine? Gun ownership has certain responsibilities that go with it. Many states have adopted laws that require a firearm to be safely stored, either in a safe or with a trigger lock. Some of them have automatic minimum sentencing guidelines as well. It is fine to own guns, I encourage it, but please do not make them easily accessible to people who should not have them.

stillwater15 · #13 03-23-2002, 09:20 PM

i have absolutely no useful legal advice to give, but kabillymac, your posts are absolutely hilarious.

Tom Earp · #14 03-23-2002, 11:32 PM

KABilly, Yu are a Will Weiner!

Yep, get ahold of OPIE Howard, and make a movie!

I keep reading this man and I love Ya for it!

KABillyMac · #15 03-26-2002, 11:07 AM

Well kids here is what happened.......

L comes back into town Saturday. Sure enough, he has a gun similar to mine, but it is in fact a 12 gauge. His excuse? He got the two mixed up. So he gave that gun to T and T will deliver the replacement gun to his uncle this weekend and hope for a even trade. I think everything will work out from here.

Value of gun.

Agreed, normal price for a 1100 is in the 4 to 500 range. This gun came from the customs shop, and was fitted with a youth stock and some requested engraving. I have since fitted it with a normal stock.

Thanks for all yall's advice, I think it helped to keep me calm.