ABCNews.com Asking for Feedback About Hazing

[kddani]

it also depends on the school's policies on hazing.... many schools have even stricter guidelines that state laws

Edited to fix typo

[Kimmie1913]

Originally posted by Rudey
While you may not like the image, that's the image that a lot of people have about minority fraternities and sororities. Yes we may not know them at all but that is the image that we all have in our heads.

It doesn't help when you have people in these fraternities talking about how rough it is and how others might not make it. It doesn't help when you see kids branded and while they may not have been forced to get it and think it's cool, you once again associate it with pain immediately in your head. Even my friends in one asian fraternity would tell me that you have to treat it like the military. That just didn't sit well with ME.

Also I know on GC, it just sorta feels like as soon as any news comes out about this, it disappears from the general threads because Amycat is friends with some people that don't want those threads on there. I'm not saying that anyone is doing anything wrong, but this creates this further image of people trying to hide something (not saying you are).

At the end of the day you'll tell me I know nothing about your org. That's fine. I don't. I'm just saying what the image a lot of people might have of those orgs. I personally have it with the fraternities. The sororities i see as being older women in phd's only because those were the only ones at MY school. You also don't have to care what anyone else's image is but if that's the case, don't flip out if they state what their impression is.

-Rudey
--That is all. I haven't been mean, so please don't take this as an opportunity to come at me.

I think it is ironic that some one who is trying to make a point about inaccurate perceptions and stereotypes makes their point by including an inaccurate perception and stereotype in their comments. You say “don't flip out if they state what their impression is.” but isn’t that the point of his comments to ABC in the first place- that they put out their inaccurate impressions about greekdom? For me, to throw in that type of comment undermines his entire message. I think the inability of others to recognize that while it may be the impression unless it is backed up with fact it is NO DIFFERENT than the IMPRESSION that all white frats do is drink and drug pledges and put them up to stupid games and misdemeanors and vandalism. That is the impression I was given on my college campus. By your comments it would be an acceptable and responsible thing for me to state that as fact because it is my impression. (I am not coming at you just asking you (and others to think about it)

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Kimmie1913
I think it is ironic that some one who is trying to make a point about inaccurate perceptions and stereotypes makes their point by including an inaccurate perception and stereotype in their comments. You say “don't flip out if they state what their impression is.” but isn’t that the point of his comments to ABC in the first place- that they put out their inaccurate impressions about greekdom? For me, to throw in that type of comment undermines his entire message. I think the inability of others to recognize that while it may be the impression unless it is backed up with fact it is NO DIFFERENT than the IMPRESSION that all white frats do is drink and drug pledges and put them up to stupid games and misdemeanors and vandalism. That is the impression I was given on my college campus. By your comments it would be an acceptable and responsible thing for me to state that as fact because it is my impression. (I am not coming at you just asking you (and others to think about it)

And you're right. I think it falls on "white" frats to battle that image. Not on anybody else. It doesn't matter whether they try to stop those things. It only matters whether those things stop and for a while people don't see them and change their views. I think you're justified in your views. I don't think people should try to hide what happens or to bring it under the fraternity's control to limit the public image damage, but I think that those things simply need to stop.

-Rudey

[Girlene]

Originally posted by hoosier
"
It is a true perception, I think, that the black (especially male) fraternities are frequent hazers. For the small number of chapters, and their general small size, they generate a lot of bad publicity.

If you look at the most recently posted bad publicity, the Wal-Mart's sock stealing girls are named Jamila and Renita. I think I know that they are from a black Greek group, although the name was never mentioned.

For the record, I know a Jamila from Asian-Pacific heritage and a Renita who is white so you need to apologize for that comment.

Your "perception" is based on your experience alone and on what you've read in the media. As a member of a GLO, YOU should know better than let media publicity be a measurement for perception.

I work in the media so I can tell you, that there are several positive stories about NPHC and NPC organizations that don't get picked up by the main-stream media. For example, no one mentioned that the new Miss America is a member of Delta Sigma Theta--what an impressive woman! However, the bad news always gets in.

Furthermore, I did a little research tracking media stories at work. In the last few years, 18 of the 24 hazing related stories that popped up were by NPC organizations. Three were non-Greek incidents, and three were NPHC organizations including the AKA drowning incident.

So your "perceptions" are being clouded by something else in your belief system. I'm sure a trip to the national headquarters of Kappa Alpha Psi in Indiana might be an educational and enriching experience for you.

[brickhouse492]

Hoosier, are you okay? Are you a caucasion who's daughter married an African-American? but really...
Did you feel that it was sooooo very IMPORTANT for ABC News to communicate to the general public that WHITE people aren't nearly as guilty of hazing as BLACK people are? So let me ask you this: For the past 40 years, have you taken it as your personal duty and claim to fame to help negative stereo types about African-American's thrive? Is that your purpose? Does that make your toes tingle? You are such the expert. You are so darn smart. Well thank you for your EMPHASIS on black=the worst of all. We don't have enough of that in the media today. You have done your job. You have surely poisened a million more. Are you a member of a black fraternity or are you a member of a white fraternity (traditional to YOU)? Maybe you should write about what you have experienced first hand in YOUR former GLO. Quote statistics. You can read and write and write and read but you can't be an expert on something that you aren't even a part of. Neither can I. Difference: I'm not trying to be. You are! Generalizations=Ignorance. Take a bow HOOSIER. If you want to fight hazing, do the damn thang! Hazing is not a color issue. That's my point, buddy.

Originally posted by hoosier
TO: ABC News

For 40 years, I've written and talked about hazing in fraternities.

When I was a fraternity member at Indiana in the early '60s, the hazing and "Hell Week" was everywhere, but private - often concealed by a "Help Week" community service project.


Another important thing... paddling. Although these groups have little in common with the 90 or 100 "traditional" national Greek Letter Organizations, ...

[DeltaSigStan]

Originally posted by Girlene
For the record, I know a Jamila from Asian-Pacific heritage and a Renita who is white so you need to apologize for that comment.

Good point. I know a caucasian girl named Nubia.

[zchi2]

Originally posted by Girlene
For the record, I know a Jamila from Asian-Pacific heritage and a Renita who is white so you need to apologize for that comment.

Thank you for that statement. I was starting to think that I was the only one who knew non-black people with the name Jamila and Renita...


But even if those two ladies were black... Why couldn't they be two black ladies trying to join "white" sororities?? Isn't the NPC really diverse these days

[DeltaSigStan]

Originally posted by zchi2

But even if those two ladies were black... Why couldn't they be two black ladies trying to join "white" sororities?? Isn't the NPC really diverse these days

Another good point. Ask my friend in SAE who's dating a GPhiB; she's black.

[madmax]

quote:
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Originally posted by madmax
Is that any worse than the two San Diego TKE pledges that were killed while pledging an active chapter even though the chapter was suspended by the university in 2000 for hazing?



http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/s...5914&highlight= +and+sdsu#post155914
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Originally posted by The1calledTKE
They were killed driving back from an activity not during an actvitiy. It was just the 2 pledges in there own car. If driving your own car is hazing we are all in trouble. Thats why TKE is still at SDSU because driving your own car is not illegal. Granted they are not recoginzed by the campus but are by TKE. And I here they are doing quite well number wise.

Unless you are a member of that chapter you have no idea what the pledges were or were not doing? Why were the pledges driving 90 mph? How do you know that the drive wasn't part of a pledging activity?

[Girlene]

Originally posted by zchi2
Thank you for that statement. I was starting to think that I was the only one who knew non-black people with the name Jamila and Renita...


But even if those two ladies were black... Why couldn't they be two black ladies trying to join "white" sororities?? Isn't the NPC really diverse these days

DITTO!!

[breathesgelatin]

Originally posted by hoosier
Another important thing is that the nine "black" fraternities and sororities are the biggest hazers, without question. It seems like you cannot join a black fraternity without severe and repeated paddling. Although these groups have little in common with the 90 or 100 "traditional" national Greek Letter Organizations, their hazing is spread over all of us.

I love how this implies that NPHC orgs don't have traditions of their own. From my perspective, it seems that a lot of times they spend much more time learning about and preserving their traditions than than NIC/NPC orgs.

Also where does the justification for the statement "you cannot join a black fraternity... without paddling" come from? Did you yourself attempt to pledge one of these organizations (and get rejected??)? Are you privy to their member selection process or pledging? Do you have contact with the pledges or members of these organizations? Do you even KNOW members of these orgs?

The answer to all these questions is NO because you are a racist jerk and no right-minded NPHC, NIC, or NPC member would associate you.

Also amused at your ASSumptions about the names of women. In my (NPC) chapter we have women and alums named LaToya and G-Young who would probably fit your messed up ideas, but we also have Biracial, Asian, and African American members named Adrienne, Helen, and Nicole. You are one sad person. Maybe you should find some time to move out of the 1940s.

[ztawinthropgirl]

Most of the well-known, prominent black persons in American society are alumna/i of NPHC fraternities and sororities! These people include Martin Luther King, Jr. and Maya Angelou. Black people might still be using a seperate bathroom and drinking from a different water fountain than white people if it weren't for some of these prominent NPHC members and alums. I don't know what they do within their own traditions and whatnot but they must be doing something right!

[Girlene]

I think someone should go to the ABC News site and ask them to check out our conversations in this thread. I'd do it, but I'm running late for a meeting...also let them know that Hoosier does not speak for or represent the majority of us. Thanks.

[The1calledTKE]

Originally posted by madmax
quote:
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Unless you are a member of that chapter you have no idea what the pledges were or were not doing? Why were the pledges driving 90 mph? How do you know that the drive wasn't part of a pledging activity?

How do you know they were hazed? I have driven 90 on the interstate before and I wasn't being hazed. There is no eveidence driving back by themselves they were hazed so why assume it? If you have proof they were hazed on the way from drving back please give it.

[DWAlphaGam]

ABCnews.com published their follow-up article, and of course it only focuses on the negatives (make sure you click on the links throughout the article to get the "real-life" hazing stories):

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/US/Li...g031017-1.html