Badge Trends?

[SWTXBelle]

Collector - someone who collects.

"In the badge business" - someone who buys/sells badges for profit.

I have a low opinion of both.

Happy to help.

[AZ-AlphaXi]

^^^^ where's my like button?

[badgeguy]

Is there a difference between collector and historian?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by badgeguy

Ok. Thanks. Next time I see any old KAT pins in the "to be scrapped" piles. I'll make sure not to "rescue" them.

I just stick with my researching old groups and locals.

BG

I always find this argument humorous. When would you be saving a badge from scrap that a member would gladly scoop it up? Most times collectors outbid actual members on priceless pieces that are never meant for the scrap heap so peddle that garbage somewhere else.

[SWTXBelle]

I'm going to have to start charging you tuition.

A historian is one who researches the history. To be a historian does not require owning the badges in direct contradiction to the wishes of the Greek letter organization ostensibly being researched. One would hope that being cognizant of the history of an organization would engender a respect for it and its symbols, including badges and pins.

A collector is one has no personal ties to the GLO and who shows no consideration for the meaning of the badges to the members or the stated directives of the Greek letter organization but sees them instead as pieces of gold and jewels able to be profaned by purchase by the uninitiated.

A collector knows the cost of the badge, but not the value or true worth.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

A historian is one who researches the history. To be a historian does not require owning the badges in direct contradiction to the wishes of the Greek letter organization ostensibly being researched. . . .

A collector is one who shows no consideration for the meaning of the badges to the members or the stated directives of the Greek letter organization but sees them instead as pieces of gold and jewels able to be profaned by purchase by the uninitiated. . . .

Serious question, though: Does it matter, or should it matter, if the badge in question was made and originally purchased (from the GLO or, as was often the case, from a third-party jeweler) before the GLO had any policies concerning disposition of badges upon death or before any idea of lifetime leases? Does it or should it matter that for many fraternities at least, it was common to give one's badge to one's girlfriend, wife, or mother, all of whom fell among the uninitiated.

I'm not talking about the propriety of collectors battling members or GLOs for badges, especially those of historic nature. But I'm a bit uncomfortable with the idea of castigating all collectors to the dustbin of humanity, especially when, from what I can tell, agreements and policies concerning lifetime leases are a fairly recent development (prompted by the Internet) that many -- maybe even most? -- GLOs still don't have. I wonder if a one-size-fits-all approach can work here. And I suspect that there are collectors who do appreciate the value and worth of the badges they collect, even if they don't know the esoteric meaning and haven't experienced the bonds of brotherhood or sisterhood of specific GLOs.

Full disclosure: While I don't collect badges, I do own one that is not from my own fraternity -- a Pike badge from the 1880s that my great-grandfather gave to my great-grandmother. If I could ever find my father's Kappa Sig badge, which he gave to my mother, then I would own two.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Serious question, though: Does it matter, or should it matter, if the badge in question was made and originally purchased (from the GLO or, as was often the case, from a third-party jeweler) before the GLO had any policies concerning disposition of badges upon death or before any idea of lifetime leases? Does it or should it matter that for many fraternities at least, it was common to give one's badge to one's girlfriend, wife, or mother, all of whom fell among the uninitiated.

I'm not talking about the propriety of collectors battling members or GLOs for badges, especially those of historic nature. But I'm a bit uncomfortable with the idea of castigating all collectors to the dustbin of humanity, especially when, from what I can tell, agreements and policies concerning lifetime leases are a fairly recent development (prompted by the Internet) that many -- maybe even most? -- GLOs still don't have. I wonder if a one-size-fits-all approach can work here. And I suspect that there are collectors who do appreciate the value and worth of the badges they collect, even if they don't know the esoteric meaning and haven't experienced the bonds of brotherhood or sisterhood of specific GLOs.

Full disclosure: While I don't collect badges, I do own one that is not from my own fraternity -- a Pike badge from the 1880s that my great-grandfather gave to my great-grandmother. If I could ever find my father's Kappa Sig badge, which he gave to my mother, then I would own two.

I can tell you that AOII had this policy long before the Internet ever existed. I also think there is a far cry from a family member owning his mother's badge for example and a collector that hoards many valuable, historic badges from groups with no ties to him/her.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I can tell you that AOII had this policy long before the Internet ever existed.

Thanks for letting me know that. I don't think I had ever heard of any GLO having this kind of policy until the last 20 years or so, and I don't think I've seen this kind of policy in any non-NPC GLO. Obviously plenty of GLOs could have policies I don't know about, so I'm only speaking from what I've observed, and am glad to be educated otherwise. (And if I've forgotten something I was already educated on, my apologies.)

I also think there is a far cry from a family member owning his mother's badge for example and a collector that hoards many valuable, historic badges from groups with no ties to him/her.

Maybe, maybe not. If the objection is to the "uninitiated" owning a badge that they cannot understand the meaning of, then there really isn't that much difference. If the objection is that the GLO has the legal right, or even the moral right, to the badge, then there's no difference at all.

The difference comes in when one considers the motivations of those who have the badge -- and that was my point. I question whether all collectors fit the description of hoarding valuable and historic badges from GLOs to which they have no ties, or as SWTXBelle said:

A collector is one who shows no consideration for the meaning of the badges to the members or the stated directives of the Greek letter organization but sees them instead as pieces of gold and jewels able to be profaned by purchase by the uninitiated.

Some collectors certainly meet this description, but all of them? I suspect that motivations can range anywhere from sentiment to genuine historical interest to preservation to profit. Not all motivations are equally deplorable.

[SWTXBelle]

MC, my definition of collectors is not meant to include those who have a tie - for example, a sweetheart or a family member - to the organization. I don't consider them "collectors" - so I will amend my definition. Everyone is welcome, of course, to define the word how they wish. In my quest to replace my mother's badge I've lost out to well-funded"collectors" many a time - and Crescent Catchers does a pretty good job of identifying sisters who are trying to rescue badges vs. "collectors".

I don't know how long Gamma Phi has had its policy in place. My badge and badge ring will now go to my daughter who is a Gamma Phi, and my family knows I will rise from the grave should any of them try to sell any of my Gamma Phi Beta jewelry!

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

My badge and badge ring will now go to my daughter who is a Gamma Phi . . .

Congratulations, btw!

and my family knows I will rise from the grave should any of them try to sell any of my Gamma Phi Beta jewelry!

And I have no doubt you'd make good on that threat.

And fair enough on the rest. FWIW, Phi Mu Alpha does not have a policy on what happens to badges at death. Consideration was given a few years back to adopting a "lifetime lease" policy, but the policy was not adopted. We don't have any kind of organized rescue program for badges, at least so far as I know. (Ritual-related items that show up on That Site and elsewhere are another matter.) Perhaps that colors my perspective on all of this.

[SWTXBelle]

I understand the reasoning behind the policies, but I think the most important thing is education of members AND MEMBERS SHARING THE INFORMATION WITH THEIR FAMILIES. Gamma Phi used to resell returned badges to members but I've been informed that is no longer the case. I have no idea what they do with non-historical badges which are returned to IHQ.

[SWTXBelle]

3 generations of Gamma Phi Betas!




(The clasp on Mom's badge went wonkey - that's why she's not wearing it - it's being repaired.)

[IndianaSigKap]

Really nice photo ^^

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I understand the reasoning behind the policies, but I think the most important thing is education of members AND MEMBERS SHARING THE INFORMATION WITH THEIR FAMILIES.

Absolutely to the bolded, with badges and everything else.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

3 generations of Gamma Phi Betas!

[honeychile]

^^Also like!