Why was the thread asking why LadyLonghorn's thread was moved moved?

[Senusret I]

Term limits for moderators, dammit!

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

That should be unacceptable. Is one mod's arrogance and abuse of power worth all of this unrest?

I agree. And a LOT of people agree (both mods and non-mods).

[Tinia2]

did i miss something here on greekchat or did you locate this elsewhere? or just now write it up? seems to be a rather good idea at first look.

Originally Posted by alum

Better yet, maybe there should be tougher TOS to protect the moderators:

Moderators and administrators may edit, move, and delete posts to make them more accessible or to bring them into compliance with our TOS. If an edit changes the context or meaning of the post in any significant way, moderators will usually include a note that the post has been edited in the post itself. All moderation, however, is performed on a "best efforts" basis - each poster is fully responsible for his/her own posts, and each visitor is responsible for what he/she reads. Offensive posts should be reported to the moderators, and every effort will be made to remove them as soon as possible. Out of respect for both moderators and policies, discussion of moderator actions and forum policies is welcomed via private message or e-mail; these issues are off-topic for the forums.

[EE-BO]

In DeltAlum's defense, this ain't his fight. This is a recruitment forum matter, and while I can appreciate that trying this thread over there would probably lead to fast deletion- the fact is it is hard for a mod to have a thread dealing with a serious concern over another forum in his own forum.

While I do think LL's post was valuable and insightful, and thus agree with some of the comments in the chit chat threads, there was a lot of commentary which was not so much about the actual words used- but the context. I have been a mod for just over a year now, and the thread here asking why LL's post got removed was reported more than any other thread I have ever seen. And it was not just one post getting reported- but several, and the people reporting weren't just mods- it included a lot of people who are regular and valuable posters here. I think most of them share the view that LL's post should not have been removed from Recruitment. It was the turn of the discussion in the chit chat thread that bothered them.

So DeltAlum did not really have much choice. And given that there has to be some kind of outlet for people to express their views on this situation, I think it was cool of him to reopen this thread and give a voice to an issue that he should not have to be dealing with in the first place.

As for LL's post- while I did like, it needed a little tweaking. It was a great smackdown for the HMs, but there will also be moms coming here to post (and tons more to just read) who are genuinely sad and upset, and just want some advice on how to counsel their daughters. Not all the moms are Helicopter Moms, and given how incredibly important sorority recruitment is- EASILY the MOST emotionally driven aspect of Greek Life- it needed a little bit of finesse in parts.

And so on that basis, it is hard to expect a Super-Mod to overrule the Recruitment Mod and just reinstate the thread- even if the little battle started by an HM were to be removed.

Super-Mods have a lot of power, but those few chosen for that role also have a tremendous respect for being careful about using it. Just look at all the fury over one thread being moved. Imagine the fury that would erupt if a Super-Mod were to override a Mod, demod or ban a Moderator. It would take a lot more than this to justify that- even given the historical context of the issue at hand with HM-related threads.

Most all of us are on the same page. And we are not going to attack other mods openly in these forums. That serves no valid purpose in the long run. This is why many of you are not seeing the outrage from us in print that you expect. We respect the role and that we are not the ones to decide who is, or is not, a mod. And I personally have a LOT of respect for just how hard it must be to moderate Recruitment fora to begin with.

I agree there is an issue here, but I think to be fair you all have to concede that there were some minor issues with the original post and how it would be received by non-HMs and also some issues with the backlash. That complicates Mods and Super-Mods taking drastic steps.

For now, I am just happy DeltAlum is letting this issue crash his forum for discussion. Rest assured we are all thinking about it too- and from both sides of the fence- and while we may not have the power to act as quick as everyone wants, and certainly won't be able to make everyone happy- we do care.

Yes this site is Entertainment. I like a good web-fight as much as anyone. But I do also care about the value of this place to Greeks. And I think I speak for all mods in saying that.

[alum]

Originally Posted by Tinia2

did i miss something here on greekchat or did you locate this elsewhere? or just now write it up? seems to be a rather good idea at first look.

I actually got this from another board which I visit. I think GC should adopt it.

[Benzgirl]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

I think the Mod Squad needs some reformulating.

I'll play Peggy Lipton's part.

[Tinia2]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

^^^ I agree. You can take that up mods who apparently don't believe in "cleaning up" and reopening threads.

Personally I feel if the original thread was cleaned up after the hollywin comments the LL thread would have been perfectly fine.

i edited the above in order that i could agree with it. i have seen moderators just about defend and protect posters who any general poster would identify as a troll or sockpuppet. and permit them to hang around. but others seem to take charge and take care of matters like that. why?

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

In DeltAlum's defense, this ain't his fight. This is a recruitment forum matter, and while I can appreciate that trying this thread over there would probably lead to fast deletion- the fact is it is hard for a mod to have a thread dealing with a serious concern over another forum in his own forum.

While I do think LL's post was valuable and insightful, and thus agree with some of the comments in the chit chat threads, there was a lot of commentary which was not so much about the actual words used- but the context. I have been a mod for just over a year now, and the thread here asking why LL's post got removed was reported more than any other thread I have ever seen. And it was not just one post getting reported- but several, and the people reporting weren't just mods- it included a lot of people who are regular and valuable posters here. I think most of them share the view that LL's post should not have been removed from Recruitment. It was the turn of the discussion in the chit chat thread that bothered them.

So DeltAlum did not really have much choice. And given that there has to be some kind of outlet for people to express their views on this situation, I think it was cool of him to reopen this thread and give a voice to an issue that he should not have to be dealing with in the first place.

As for LL's post- while I did like, it needed a little tweaking. It was a great smackdown for the HMs, but there will also be moms coming here to post (and tons more to just read) who are genuinely sad and upset, and just want some advice on how to counsel their daughters. Not all the moms are Helicopter Moms, and given how incredibly important sorority recruitment is- EASILY the MOST emotionally driven aspect of Greek Life- it needed a little bit of finesse in parts.

And so on that basis, it is hard to expect a Super-Mod to overrule the Recruitment Mod and just reinstate the thread- even if the little battle started by an HM were to be removed.

Super-Mods have a lot of power, but those few chosen for that role also have a tremendous respect for being careful about using it. Just look at all the fury over one thread being moved. Imagine the fury that would erupt if a Super-Mod were to override a Mod, demod or ban a Moderator. It would take a lot more than this to justify that- even given the historical context of the issue at hand with HM-related threads.

Most all of us are on the same page. And we are not going to attack other mods openly in these forums. That serves no valid purpose in the long run. This is why many of you are not seeing the outrage from us in print that you expect. We respect the role and that we are not the ones to decide who is, or is not, a mod. And I personally have a LOT of respect for just how hard it must be to moderate Recruitment fora to begin with.

I agree there is an issue here, but I think to be fair you all have to concede that there were some minor issues with the original post and how it would be received by non-HMs and also some issues with the backlash. That complicates Mods and Super-Mods taking drastic steps.

For now, I am just happy DeltAlum is letting this issue crash his forum for discussion. Rest assured we are all thinking about it too- and from both sides of the fence- and while we may not have the power to act as quick as everyone wants, and certainly won't be able to make everyone happy- we do care.

Yes this site is Entertainment. I like a good web-fight as much as anyone. But I do also care about the value of this place to Greeks. And I think I speak for all mods in saying that.

With all due respect, I think you may be making GC out to be way more important than it really is. This isn't the NPC or IFC official site. Posts made here are not official statements by any Greek organization. Furthermore, you imply that the sensitivities of visitors to this site warrant more consideration that those of the regular posters of the site. So what if a few moms are insulted? If I go on the political threads I get insulted because I am conservative and 99.99% of GC posters are liberals. Solution: I don't go there. I don't need a moderator deciding what is offensive and what isn't. If someone was upset by the advice in LL's thread, they could have started a new thread with different advice, or added their differing opinion to that thread.

In my opinion, this site does not, or should I say should not, exist to promote a positive image of Greek life. It is merely an outlet for Greeks to interact, and as such it is valuable as a realistic portrayal of Greek life. GC's value to a visitor is that it provides such insight, for better or for worse. Visitors to the site can take it for what it is. When the site is micro-moderated, visitors are left with a sanitized forum and therefore it loses its value as a truthful portayal. It becomes a product of the views of the moderators, rather than the regular posters. Some Greeks are hateful people, so therefore some posts will be. Deleting everything hateful promotes an image that just isn't realistic.

For the most part, GC posters tend to do a pretty good job of moderating themselves. When newbies ask for tiers and such, they are immediately informed of the culture of the site by regular posters. No moderating interference is needed.

Other than spam and obscenity/vulgarity, I don't see why anything needs to be deleted.

Lady Longhorn's post, and even the ensuing drama, is just part of a whole that is GC. I don't think any of it should have been altered other than obscenity. All of it represented the opinions of the posters, and that is exactly what GC should be, in my opinion.

[EE-BO]

Irishpipes, I do not see where we disagree. As I said, I think LL's post could have used a little tweaking, but not much. She is a smart lady, and she hit the issue head on right.

And my concern for sensitivity only applies to sorority recruitment. There should be some smackdowns in there since a lot of people ask for it. But this was a thread addressed to all mothers on a sensitive issue at the most sensitive time of the year.

I do not have an issue with how most posters are on this site- including the long-timers who have gotten contentious in the threads surrounding this drama. They are some of the best resources GC has- and for every deserved smackdown to someone who needs one, they have been a great help for those who come here with good intentions.

My point is that there is a desire here for a Super-Mod to override a Mod. And for that to happen, it would have to be a really black-white situation- or the fallout would be even worse than what we are seeing here.

[Tippiechick]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

Irishpipes, I do not see where we disagree. As I said, I think LL's post could have used a little tweaking, but not much. She is a smart lady, and she hit the issue head on right.

And my concern for sensitivity only applies to sorority recruitment. There should be some smackdowns in there since a lot of people ask for it. But this was a thread addressed to all mothers on a sensitive issue at the most sensitive time of the year.

I do not have an issue with how most posters are on this site- including the long-timers who have gotten contentious in the threads surrounding this drama. They are some of the best resources GC has- and for every deserved smackdown to someone who needs one, they have been a great help for those who come here with good intentions.

My point is that there is a desire here for a Super-Mod to override a Mod. And for that to happen, it would have to be a really black-white situation- or the fallout would be even worse than what we are seeing here.

There is NO desire for a super-mod to override a mod --that came from Deltalum... We have a desire for John to get his ass in gear and fix what needs fixing. ***cough** mods who mod for personal reasons over and over for YEARS***cough***

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

Irishpipes, I do not see where we disagree. As I said, I think LL's post could have used a little tweaking, but not much. She is a smart lady, and she hit the issue head on right.

And my concern for sensitivity only applies to sorority recruitment. There should be some smackdowns in there since a lot of people ask for it. But this was a thread addressed to all mothers on a sensitive issue at the most sensitive time of the year.

I do not have an issue with how most posters are on this site- including the long-timers who have gotten contentious in the threads surrounding this drama. They are some of the best resources GC has- and for every deserved smackdown to someone who needs one, they have been a great help for those who come here with good intentions.

My point is that there is a desire here for a Super-Mod to override a Mod. And for that to happen, it would have to be a really black-white situation- or the fallout would be even worse than what we are seeing here.

We disagree because I would view LL's post as her opinion, and only her opinion. As such, it needs no tweaking. Comments (tweaks?) about her opinion come in the form of posts to her thread from other users. I don't think mods should edit or delete someone's opinion to make it their own. You leave it as is, then add your own 2 cents in your own post. That way a reader can see different sides and make their own decision.

[EE-BO]

Irishpipes, I can admit when I am wrong- and you make sense and I think you are right. Mods could add their own take and then, yes, you have an ideal thread.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Aren't Supermods also here to close threads in any forum?

I will say the same thing I say about 380 pound women wearing strapless tops or hooking up with a guy who has dated 20 people within your immediate radius.

"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

Supermods can close and/or move any thread in any forum; however, if it is a forum THAT ALREADY HAS A MODERATOR it is exceptionally rude to do so. The supermods only have superior technical abilities. Their "super" status does not mean they have been found to be people who make better decisions than the other mods, or that they know more about Greek life than the other mods. We (mods we) all have different interpretations of the TOS, as well as know what is and is not OK to have in a particular org's forum (to wit: NPHC recruitment vs NPC recruitment).

If a supermod ever does close or move threads in a modded forum, it's usually because the mod of that forum is offline for a period and has requested that people "look out" for goings on in the forum.

If PenguinTrax cleaned up some threads in the Recruitment forum, it is because she is a Recruitment mod, NOT because she is a supermod.

And irishpipes, I agree with your whole post. I think GC is a happy medium between yukky things like juicy campus and the sanitized version of Greek life on many national or chapter websites. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have as many people visiting here as we do.

[Tinia2]

a moderator posted in a thread something that was rather clearly in violation of tos. several posters saw it and commented on it. speaking only for myself, i pm'ed the moderator and pointed out their posting. the moderator replied rather promptly and apologized for their error. they had simply forgotten. ok, we are all human, we all do that that sort of thing.
however, while they admitted they had made an error that was in violation of tos, they did not go back and fix it. nor did any of the moderators of that thread. true, the poster was a moderator. but they were posting as a general member. actions like that do make one wonder.

Originally Posted by 33girl

I will say the same thing I say about 380 pound women wearing strapless tops or hooking up with a guy who has dated 20 people within your immediate radius.

"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

Supermods can close and/or move any thread in any forum; however, if it is a forum THAT ALREADY HAS A MODERATOR it is exceptionally rude to do so. The supermods only have superior technical abilities. Their "super" status does not mean they have been found to be people who make better decisions than the other mods, or that they know more about Greek life than the other mods. We (mods we) all have different interpretations of the TOS, as well as know what is and is not OK to have in a particular org's forum (to wit: NPHC recruitment vs NPC recruitment).

If a supermod ever does close or move threads in a modded forum, it's usually because the mod of that forum is offline for a period and has requested that people "look out" for goings on in the forum.

If PenguinTrax cleaned up some threads in the Recruitment forum, it is because she is a Recruitment mod, NOT because she is a supermod.

And irishpipes, I agree with your whole post. I think GC is a happy medium between yukky things like juicy campus and the sanitized version of Greek life on many national or chapter websites. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have as many people visiting here as we do.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I will say the same thing I say about 380 pound women wearing strapless tops or hooking up with a guy who has dated 20 people within your immediate radius.

"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

Supermods can close and/or move any thread in any forum; however, if it is a forum THAT ALREADY HAS A MODERATOR it is exceptionally rude to do so. The supermods only have superior technical abilities. Their "super" status does not mean they have been found to be people who make better decisions than the other mods, or that they know more about Greek life than the other mods. We (mods we) all have different interpretations of the TOS, as well as know what is and is not OK to have in a particular org's forum (to wit: NPHC recruitment vs NPC recruitment).

If a supermod ever does close or move threads in a modded forum, it's usually because the mod of that forum is offline for a period and has requested that people "look out" for goings on in the forum.

If PenguinTrax cleaned up some threads in the Recruitment forum, it is because she is a Recruitment mod, NOT because she is a supermod.

And irishpipes, I agree with your whole post. I think GC is a happy medium between yukky things like juicy campus and the sanitized version of Greek life on many national or chapter websites. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have as many people visiting here as we do.

Just confirming that this is pretty much the consensus about SuperMod stuff from our recent discussions.

Tippiechick, I think we would all like for John to be around more often to clean stuff up/solve problems. Mods and non-mods alike.