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  #1  
Old 10-16-2007, 10:52 PM
pieceofpaper pieceofpaper is offline
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Join APO after being in NIC fraternity? Reasons for and against?

I'm just wondering if any of you joined APO after already being in another fraternity or sorority? Or if you know of people who did this?

What were the reasons for doing this?

I know of a bunch of people who joined APO first and then joined another fraternity or sorority - some remaining active in APO, others not.

I know reasons for doing that - but how about going the other way?

-----
I am in a NIC fraternity, but it is a rather small chapter and our philanthropy is mostly non-existant .

I've been thinking about whether or not to rush APO some time in the future. I'm not a service obsessed person at all, but I would like to do some things and my NIC chapter definitely is severely lacking in that department.

How would my brothers take this if I decided to also join APO? I know that many brothers of my fraternity have also been in APO in the past - but I'm pretty sure that they all joined APO first.

APO at my school - while service based - seems very social. I had considered joining them mainly for the social aspect before I joined the fraternity that I joined. But this is just a thought in the back of my mind now.

I remain curious and intersted though.
If I do decide to rush, it would be Fall 2008 or later.

And another unrelated question: How connected to the Boy Scouts is APO? Do the Boy Scouts have a hand in APO?

I would appreciate any responses.

Last edited by pieceofpaper; 10-16-2007 at 10:57 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-16-2007, 11:27 PM
REE1993 REE1993 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieceofpaper View Post

How would my brothers take this if I decided to also join APO?
No one knows how someone else will react. Why not ask them and find out?
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Last edited by REE1993; 10-17-2007 at 05:49 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-16-2007, 11:33 PM
Senusret I Senusret I is offline
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I'm just wondering if any of you joined APO after already being in another fraternity or sorority? Or if you know of people who did this?

I became an Alpha after APO. Sorry, but I don't know anyone who pledged APO second. (But I have heard of it and they had no problems.)

What were the reasons for doing this?

Of the people I heard of who did this, they really wanted to do a wide array of service projects and not just the one(s) their social/general GLO performed. They also admired the brotherhood (particularly if the chapter was coed).

I've been thinking about whether or not to rush APO some time in the future.

Go for it!

How would my brothers take this if I decided to also join APO?


I don't know your brothers....sowwy.

APO at my school - while service based - seems very social.

It's good that they enjoy doing things together -- that's definitely part of what being in Alpha Phi Omega is all about.

And another unrelated question: How connected to the Boy Scouts is APO?

Visit www.apo.org -- if you look around enough, you might even find our pledge manual there.

Do the Boy Scouts have a hand in APO?

They are administratively two separate organizations.
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  #4  
Old 10-17-2007, 08:01 AM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senusret I View Post
Do the Boy Scouts have a hand in APO?

They are administratively two separate organizations.
But with strong historical connections, right?

I do know lots of adult Scouters who were members of APO.
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  #5  
Old 10-17-2007, 08:04 AM
Senusret I Senusret I is offline
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Originally Posted by MysticCat View Post
But with strong historical connections, right?
I can agree with that statement.

It's one of those issues on GC, so I like for people to read what APO has to say officially on the matter.
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  #6  
Old 10-17-2007, 10:08 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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If you want to be in a group where service comes first, join APO.

DON'T join APO because your NIC group sucks and you want a substitute.

DON'T join APO because they "seem very social" and that's the component you're looking for first.
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  #7  
Old 10-17-2007, 10:53 AM
pieceofpaper pieceofpaper is offline
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Great advice so far everyone.

No, I wouldn't join because my "NIC group sucks" - it doesn't and I didn't say that. It is, however, severely lacking in the area in which APO is most strong. I could no doubt bring back invaluable service ideas back to my NIC fraternity.

And if my NIC group did suck, what would be wrong with joining to try to find a substitute?


What would be wrong to join because APO seems very social? Not solely for this reason, but it is a big reason none the less. APO seems like a great place to meet people and I like the fact that it is co-ed. If I were to join, I would certainly take the service aspects seriously though.

No one else has experience with people joining APO after being in another fraternity or sorority? It does seem to almost always go the other way.
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  #8  
Old 10-17-2007, 11:11 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieceofpaper View Post
And if my NIC group did suck, what would be wrong with joining to try to find a substitute?
APO is NOT "I couldn't get into a social GLO so I'll join here."
APO is NOT "My social GLO sucks/I don't like the members/I don't fit in so I'll join here."

APO is an organization you join primarily because you want to do service, in an environment that also encourages brotherhood with those you do service with. The brotherhood comes about because of the service. I'm not sure what you mean by "they seem very social", but if they are having mixers and such with sororities, that's not cool at all.

APO is not a substitute for any other organization. To treat it as such is disrespectful. If you can't join it on its own merit you shouldn't join at all.

Sorry if I sound like a bitch, but this is something that really bugs me and it happens ALL the time.
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  #9  
Old 10-17-2007, 11:22 AM
pieceofpaper pieceofpaper is offline
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I do appreciate your honest opinions and it gives me things to think about.

By social, I mean they don't just do service things together and go home - they hang out, etc. many even date. I didn't mean that they have parties with other greeks - pretty sure that they don't.

If I really and truly felt that my NIC group sucked, I think that I would try to join APO as quickly as I could. A great organization, a brotherhood, but different from NIC fraternities. If I hated my NIC, that might just be what I needed.

I know plenty of people, that while they enjoy service, a main reason for joining APO was to make friends or/and they have a lot of friends already in APO (as I do) that they want to become closer to. Is this so wrong?

Once again, I really apprecaite your honest answers 33girl.

Last edited by pieceofpaper; 10-17-2007 at 11:26 AM.
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  #10  
Old 10-17-2007, 11:35 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Originally Posted by pieceofpaper View Post
I do appreciate your honest opinions and it gives me things to think about.

By social, I mean they don't just do service things together and go home - they hang out, etc. many even date. I didn't mean that they have parties with other greeks - pretty sure that they don't.

If I really and truly felt that my NIC group sucked, I think that I would try to join APO as quickly as I could. A great organization, a brotherhood, but different from NIC fraternities. If I hated my NIC, that might just be what I needed.

I know plenty of people, that while they enjoy service, a main reason for joining APO was to make friends. Is this so wrong?

Once again, I really apprecaite your honest answers 33girl.
Oh, yeah, they date. Guilty as charged :P . That's what I meant about it not being just service, but brotherhood also. My chapter had brothers who lived together, we threw parties regularly etc. I pledged because my friends were already members, but I wouldn't have joined if I didn't also really like the concept of doing service.

Like I said, I don't mean to come off as mean or discouraging, just that I've seen a lot of people who only joined 1) to put it on the resume 2) to meet people, and didn't give a crap about the service component and did everything to avoid it.

I think joining APO would be fine, but I would also see if you can correct some of the things you see that are wrong with your NIC group (size, lack of philanthropy) - you may find that what you're looking for has been in your own backyard all along.
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  #11  
Old 10-17-2007, 03:48 PM
emb021 emb021 is offline
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Originally Posted by pieceofpaper View Post
And another unrelated question: How connected to the Boy Scouts is APO? Do the Boy Scouts have a hand in APO?
I'll address these 2 questions.

The BSA has approved APO since the 1930s. APO is the ONLY college organization that the BSA recommends their youth to join when they go to college. The BSA includes info on APO in its literature, and about once a decade runs an article about APO in Scouting magazine. The BSA allows APO to have Info Booths at major scouting events (National Jamboree, NOACs, etc). The BSA has a member of the National Council on APO's Board of Directors, and there is a APO member on the BSA's Relationship's Committee.

However, APO recognizes that the BSA is not the only Scouting organization around, and that potential Brothers may be members of those organizations. And sadly, some APO Brothers may not want to work with the BSA. Hence APO works with other groups like the Girl Scouts and Camp Fire USA.

Each Chapter is free to determine its service program. Some Chapters have a strong service Scouting program with the BSA, some have a strong service scouting program with several scouting groups, including the BSA, and some have a weak or non-existant scouting service program.

The BSA has NO hand in APO. The two groups are independent of each other. The fact that there is a BSA member on our board does not change this. The BSA has representatives of many groups on its Relationship Committee for the same reasons, but it would be a mistake to assume the BSA is run by all those groups.
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  #12  
Old 10-18-2007, 08:31 AM
GMUAPhiOAdvisor GMUAPhiOAdvisor is offline
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Can't we all play together??

Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
. I'm not sure what you mean by "they seem very social", but if they are having mixers and such with sororities, that's not cool at all.

Is having mixers with other GLOs so bad? When I was at OU, we'd do social events with other GLOs and they were fantastic! It helped us meet other greek groups and we ended up doing a TON of service with the PanHell groups, IFC groups and NPHC groups as well.

If we isolate ourselves from all other GLOs, we lose that part of ourselves....yes, we're a service fraternity, but we ARE a fraternity and one of our cardinal principals is FRIENDSHIP. This is something we should share with others, not just keep to ourselves.

Just my .02....
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  #13  
Old 10-18-2007, 03:00 PM
KAPital PHINUst KAPital PHINUst is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
APO is NOT "I couldn't get into a social GLO so I'll join here."
APO is NOT "My social GLO sucks/I don't like the members/I don't fit in so I'll join here."

APO is an organization you join primarily because you want to do service, in an environment that also encourages brotherhood with those you do service with. The brotherhood comes about because of the service. I'm not sure what you mean by "they seem very social", but if they are having mixers and such with sororities, that's not cool at all.

Sorry if I sound like a bitch, but this is something that really bugs me and it happens ALL the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
Like I said, I don't mean to come off as mean or discouraging, just that I've seen a lot of people who only joined 1) to put it on the resume 2) to meet people, and didn't give a crap about the service component and did everything to avoid it.
This is one area APO really needs to work on; they need to do a better job at, as I put it, weeding out all non-hackers that do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved frat. When we market APO as the all-inclusive frat, we get nothing but dead weight, resume padders, and letter-wearers. We need to start saying to folk "you aren't APO material. Go somewhere else."

Being more discriminatory on who we extend bids to or which pledges are allow to be initiated will show the campus that we mean business. I think all too often we are afraid to do that, because we don't want to have to defend our position. Well, if you document your prospectives/pledges activities and behavior, they won't have a leg to stand on and you'll be justified in your actions.

This is what happens when we pander to prospectives/pledges and wallow in political correctness to the public at large.

If we don't want to appear as a Greek lettered Circle K, we need to let some people know that they must earn the letters.
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  #14  
Old 10-18-2007, 04:36 PM
DramaQueen42401 DramaQueen42401 is offline
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You are too right

[QUOTE=KAPital PHINUst;1539061]This is one area APO really needs to work on; they need to do a better job at, as I put it, weeding out all non-hackers that do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved frat. When we market APO as the all-inclusive frat, we get nothing but dead weight, resume padders, and letter-wearers. We need to start saying to folk "you aren't APO material. Go somewhere else."
QUOTE]

I haven't posted on here in a long time but I couldn't help but agree.

I suggested to my chapter, back in my college days, that we be a little more "hard" in the selection process. We accept whoever walks in the door into the org. Now, please understand that I don't mean only let certain people apply. I mean that no matter who applies, ask some serious questions, have an observation period, be more selective about the quality of who we let in our chapter, DO SOMETHING that weeds out who is here just to get a membership certificate and who is here to serve the chapter. We had retention issues, EVERY SEMESTER. I was getting sick of people pledging and then we never see them again because they weren't here for strong reasons. It was just something to do, for them. My pledge class had 16 people on it. The very next semester, maybe half of us returned, if that many, to be active.

My brothers were not interested in being more selective. They didn't want to seem like one of the council greek lettered orgs. They didn't want to seem like they only wanted to pick "popular" people or the "cool" people. They wanted to be inclusive and take EVERYBODY. It's not even about picking cool people or popular people. It's about choosing people who are going to WORK for APO!!

So, being outnumbered, I left it alone and the problem continued. Everytime I heard any comment related to "why don't members don't stay around" or "we need to improve our retention", I just shook my head.
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  #15  
Old 10-18-2007, 04:42 PM
Senusret I Senusret I is offline
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I kind of don't understand.... for those chapters that have this issue, don't you have pledging requirements?

You certainly DON'T have to accept everyone who pledges, especially if they don't complete the requirements.

I don't believe in selecting who pledges, but I do believe in selecting who gets initiated.
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