HORRENDOUS BEAT DOWN

[prettygyrl]

I thought i would take the time to share this with everyone......Yesterday at work I had a very sad conversation with a woman who happen to walk up as me and a few of my co-workers were discussing something pertaining to a sorority(which will remain nameless) anyway.......this woman went on to tell us how she hated the sorority because just this past semester her daughter was pledging and she suffered a beatdown that had her hospitalized for a short time! She said that what she really could not understand is why her daughter was more angry at her for insisting that she drop out of the line than she was at the girls who beat her up. She said her daughter claimed she did not want to be "paper"(how i hate that term) and that the beating was necessary and that everyone got one hers just affected her more! I was really saddened by this! I went on to tell the lady that although I was not greek, it is something that i am going to pursue beacuse it is really a positive thing. I explained to her that although the sorority that we spoke of was not my sorority of choice, I did know many women who were a part of the sorority and that they have NEVER taken part in such things and that they are also doing great things for their surrounding community and more. I told her that unfortunately different chapters do things in different ways and she must understand that alot of ths type of behavior goes unreported(as in her daughters case). I told her that I think they should report what happened because working torward the end of this type of treatment must be a joint effort and people can stop what is not known. If it is reported, I told her maybe it will decrease (if not completley eliminate) the next line of pledgees from having to deal with this. At the end of the convo I think that she understood what i meant. I also told her to tell her daughter that she should still wear her letters proudly and be active in her sorority. She should pay no attention to those who may insist that she is "paper"(i hate that term) Because after all its not about how you obtain your letters(unless you obtain them under false pretenses) it is what you do with them once you have them!..............Anyway I just want to tell all the prospectives out there! It is not worth it! I mean it is very important to me that I obtain membership in the sorority of my choice but I will not take a beat down from no one! I do not see any correlation in beating me up and love, loyalty and sisterhood! I have no problem with pledging. It may be a good experience for some. If it involves a beating then that is when it becomes a bad thing. When a parent beats a child that is not love! When a man beats a woman that is not love!(or vice versa) So if a woman beats me up one day and expects me to believe that she loves me the next and that now we are bonding.......I beleive that is bullshit! I do not know about yall but I really do not think I if got beat up by someone, or a group of people, that it would make me feel closer to them. So prospectives do not lose sight of your goal if you ever run into this problem then please report it. It is not about being a tattle tale it is about doing the RIGHT thing! Do not accept beatdowns. If you are truly pursuing your choice of a greek org for the right reasons then you will know that you can love your org, support them, and be active for a lifetime, and no beatdown is going to help you do it any better! IF THERE ARE ANY GREEKS OUT THERE WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH A PLEDGE PROCESS WHERE THEY WERE HIT.........I JUST WANT TO APOLOGIZE TO YOU ON BEHALF OF THE HUMAN RACE! ALTHOUGH WE HAVE INTELLIGENT, GREAT MINDS, WE STILL MAKE BAD DECSIONS, AND TAKE PART IN SOME AWFUL THINGS AT TIMES. I AM SORRY IF ANYONE EVER DEALT WITH THAT. I HOPE THAT ANYONE WHO HAS REALIZES THAT THEY DID NOT DESERVE IT AND NO ONE ELSE DOES EITHER! SO HOPEFULLY THE ONES THAT HAVE RECEIVED IT DO NOT DISH IT OUT. WE HAVE TO BREAK THE CYLCLE AT SOME POINT!

[mgdzkm433]

All I can say is Well Said!!

[Finer Woman10-A-91]

Originally posted by mgdzkm433:
All I can say is Well Said!!

ditto...print your words out and keep them by your bed. If your time should come hold tight to your virtues. You might be suprised how much peer pressure will make you do things you never thought you would do. Good luck



[This message has been edited by Finer Woman10-A-91 (edited June 05, 2000).]

[QUEEN]

IN THE BEGINNING THE THOUGHT
WAS A WONDERFUL DREAM .
A WONDERFUL WORLD OF WOMANHOOD COMING TOGETHER FOR ONE COMMON PURPOSE. IN ORDER FOR ME TO ENTER THIS WONDERFUL DREAM I NEEDED TO GO THROUGH SOME THINGS, AND I DID. SOME I WASN'T TO PROUD OF AND SOME THINGS MADE ME CRY OUT LOUD. EMOTIONALY BRUSED AND PHYSICALLY TIRED, I WAS ALLOWED MEMBERSHIP INTO THE DREAM THAT IS NOW REALITY. YES I WAS BEATEN, YES I WAS TORMENTED, AND YES THE MENTAL TORMENT STILL LINGERS. I AM PROUD TO BE A PART OF MY SORORITY BECAUSE I TOOK AN OATH AN I PLAN TO LIVE BY THAT OATH. I TOOK AN OATH FROM THE WORD OF GOD, TO LOVE EVERYONE AS MUCH AS I LOVE THE CREATOR OF ALL.I WILL NOT TREAT THE WOMEN WHO ARE UNDER ME WITH LITTLE TO NO RESPECT LIKE I WAS TREATED, I AM BETTER THAN THAT!!!!

[ZetaAce]

Queen- Thank you for posting that! I am glad to read your last statment!! So many people do things because it was done to them and people don't realize that just because it was done to them that doesn't make it right!

ZetaAce

Originally posted by QUEEN:
IN THE BEGINNING THE THOUGHT
WAS A WONDERFUL DREAM .
A WONDERFUL WORLD OF WOMANHOOD COMING TOGETHER FOR ONE COMMON PURPOSE. IN ORDER FOR ME TO ENTER THIS WONDERFUL DREAM I NEEDED TO GO THROUGH SOME THINGS, AND I DID. SOME I WASN'T TO PROUD OF AND SOME THINGS MADE ME CRY OUT LOUD. EMOTIONALY BRUSED AND PHYSICALLY TIRED, I WAS ALLOWED MEMBERSHIP INTO THE DREAM THAT IS NOW REALITY. YES I WAS BEATEN, YES I WAS TORMENTED, AND YES THE MENTAL TORMENT STILL LINGERS. I AM PROUD TO BE A PART OF MY SORORITY BECAUSE I TOOK AN OATH AN I PLAN TO LIVE BY THAT OATH. I TOOK AN OATH FROM THE WORD OF GOD, TO LOVE EVERYONE AS MUCH AS I LOVE THE CREATOR OF ALL.I WILL NOT TREAT THE WOMEN WHO ARE UNDER ME WITH LITTLE TO NO RESPECT LIKE I WAS TREATED, I AM BETTER THAN THAT!!!!

[Finer Woman10-A-91]

Originally posted by ZetaAce:
Queen- Thank you for posting that! I am glad to read your last statment!! So many people do things because it was done to them and people don't realize that just because it was done to them that doesn't make it right!

ZetaAce

AMEN!!!!!!!!!



------------------
Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Finer Woman's Dream!

[Discogoddess]

Prettygrl:

I usually don't like to comment on hazing/pledging threads, as the topic has been done to death, AND I have concerns about why such things are posted in the first place, but I really wanted to comment on your statement:

"Because after all its not about how you obtain your letters(unless you obtain them under false pretenses) it is what you do with them once you have them!.............."

While it does matter most what you do with your letters once you receive them, there is a feeling I can't explain that comes with having earned them through a set of challenges, in short, the experience involved with getting the letters informs the sacredness of the letters once earned. Mind you, not an experience with beatings, not mental cruelty, but a set of challenges that my line sister and I had to work through. It's hard at times for me to understand why one would have that deep love for their letters/organization without such experiences to help burnish those feelings in one's heart.

The problem-solving and leadership skills I gained through that experience have stood me in good stead since then, and the bond formed between myself and my sands, whom I couldn't stand before we pledged together, has stood every test the past decade has brought us. I only hope that I imparted that same sense of "somethingness" to the young women I brought into our sisterhood when it was my turn to teach them. It's that "somethingness" that causes tears to well in my eyes whenever I sing our hymn, participate in rituals, or greet a new soror (and pick up my checkbook to help financially support the sisterhood, too!).

I hope and pray that we come up with a better solution so that more young women and men get to know that feeling, rather than the pain and anger that come with this whole hazing/underground/"paper" issue that has manifested itself since 1990.

DG
Spring, 1990
Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc.

P.S. The term "paper" is a perjorative one, used to describe a member of a BGLO who has gone through a membership intake process in which they are initiated without participating in a pledge period or took part in an extremely short one, without enough time to learn the history, rituals, etc. of the organization.




[This message has been edited by Discogoddess (edited June 05, 2000).]

I read the first post and it saddened me to think that a young lady wanted to join a particular sorority so badly, that she would put up with anything, at any cost, including a physical beating, in order to be a member.

I was hazed, not by a sorority, but by a women's rowing team. I thank God that I was not beaten physically, but I was verbally abused, sworn at, traumatized, had a streak of my hair dyed black (so I looked like an idiot with a bad dye job in my first year of college, just what you don't need when you are trying to find your "way" in college that first year).

I had alcohol poured down my throat, and the other members of the rowing team held their hands over my mouth, so I couldn't spit the alcohol out; I had to swallow it (it was tequila - straight up...yuck) (Also, I do enjoy a drink once in a while, in a responsible manner, but nothing like that forced ingestion that I was subjected to).

Not surprisingly, I felt alienated by the hazing incident, not "closer" to the team members. I quit the team soon after and never looked back. I hated those girls for what they did to me and I have never regretted quitting.

Therefore, I take a firm stance against hazing and think those that perform the acts of hazing should be punished to the fullest extent allowable.

(P.S. What does "paper" mean? Please tell me, I honestly don't know. From the context, it sounds like "paper" means you are worthless. Am I on the right track? Please let me know.)

Thank you and God Bless.

[ZetaAce]

I too try to stay out of these discussions, but I thought I would provide some interesting reading material that is semi-related to the discussion:

Pledging vs. Hazing

I_was_hazed- Check this out for the answer to your question:
Greek Terms

Both of these articles came from http://3n1promo.com/ and click on the link at the top The Temple of Blue

ZetaAce


[This message has been edited by ZetaAce (edited June 05, 2000).]

[Cucci74]

I have to agree with Discogoddess, for she makes some very good points. I was never beaten or harmed in any way. But I earned my letters and now I have more confindence and faith in people. There are better ways of teaching them hospitalizing someone.

[prettygyrl]

Discgoddes I have no problems with pledging, I do beleive it could be a plus in alot of cases but I will not be hit thats all I was saying. The learning process and the leadership roles etc that you learn through pledging is great just minus a beat down. I really was not trying to post about just "hazing" so to speak, but you would be surprised how many young men and women feel that the beatdown is necessary for respect I just wanted everyone to know it is not. Some people that are called "paper" are those who have went throught the whole process and then in the end were dropped and some dropped line because of physical abuse. I just think it is awful of some who may not have respect them because the were considered "paper" I know for myself If I am faced with choice of being what one would consider "paper" or a beat down I would rather be known as paper without a doubt. Thats all I was trying to say.

[dstbrat]

there is nothing wrong with challenging potentials leadership and team work, but, the problem is how to keep those from acting outside of the process. how do you control th lunatics? if any of our organizations could have answered this question,there would still be some semblence of the pledge process left. the rules are created for the 10-15% of the population who don't get it. the ones who want to exercise some power our someone else to make themselves feel important. i know of folks who still travel back to their home chapter to make sure the neos come in right. how do you reason with and old head who is drunk (in many cases)and on a power trip about protecting their chapter? and at the end of the day, it is a financial decision for our headquarters. no one can afford to keep paying million dollar verdicts to families of the battered or dead potentials.

[ManndingoNUPE]

I agree with some of the points that have been made here, and disagree with others. I believe that it is a personal decision, when it comes to pledging. First off, pledging and hazing are two different things. To make two people wear the same shirt is considered hazing. That to me is at the far end of the spectrum. I believe in a pledge process, although a person's love and dedication to thier organization should be in spite of, not becuase of how they were made. Yes we get bogged down into this paper vs who pledged thing all the time. But the sad part is that a lot of those people who can say I pledge for 6 months, I got mad wood, I was seen by x y and z chapter, I am from the bloody $# chapter, I was in the hosptital, will never show thier face at a grad meeting. Will not come out for any Kommunity service. That is a problem. I am not saying that all are like this, but the statistics of people who join our respective organization, and those who remain active after they graduate, are staggering. Reklimation is a big problem within all of the BGLO's. I know bras that will travel from Cali to Georgia to pledge a line, but will not drive down the street, to go to a grad meeting. That's sad.

This whole discussion is not new though. Fraternities and sorrorities have been dealing with this for quite some time now.

I will say something that a few of you may not like, but you don't know me and probably never will so here it goes.

"There is nothing wrong with taking a little wood!" I am sorry I know that most of you don't agree, but like I said that's just my opinion. As long as it is not excessive, there are some things that one should just go through.

That's my opinion, and I am sticking with it.

[Discogoddess]

ManndigoNUPE:

I'm glad you had the guts to speak your mind, even if your opinion isn't popular on this particular thread. Though I presume you were speaking about your own experience, I would like to add that I think that for WOMEN to administer and accept physical beatings as a part of entering a supposedly refined, ladylike organization, is ridiculous and completely unacceptable. I am a feminist who believes that women and men are equal, but I also believe we're different, and I wouldn't want to take up certain things that are considered normal for men, like beating someone as a part of a pledge process.

dstbrat:

I am still trying to figure out a way that our organizations can incorporate the positive aspects of pledge activities without the craziness of hazing. The only thing I've come up with so far is some type of moratorium on membership intake (particularly undergraduate) while we undertake a renewed reclamation effort during that time. I don't know exactly how it would work, but I hope that by rededicating myself to my own sorority, I will work with others to figure out a positive, WORKABLE solution. We need WORKERS to accomplish the goals we've all set. POSEURS need not apply!

DG

[Eclipse]

Discogoddess,
I usually stay out of the hazing/pledging conversations because 1) I'm not a member of a sorority and 2) they have been beaten into the ground and rarely does someone's opinion change. That being said, here I go anyway

I understand what you are saying about a moratorium on undergrad membership, but I don't think that will work because of the way people have romanticized pledging. Above ground pledging in the NPHC was banned (please correct me if I am wrong) 1990. The average college student (at 19-20 yrs old) was 9 or 10!! They shouldn't (really) know anything about pledging, but they talk about how they want to be pledged. So, how do they know what that means? Of course movies like School Daze and shows like A Different World have ficitionalized above ground pledging, but I think most of them have gotten an idea of what 'pledging' is all about from members of BGLOs--"old heads" if you will--talking about their experiences--even when they talk about how hazing/pledging was a bad thing. People like sharing war stories. When they do, they elevate the experiences to mythical proportions. When you are 19-20 and some one you respect talks about how "hard" they worked for their letters, how they never got any sleep, all the things they went through, etc, the impressionable 19 year old wants to experience the same thing so he/she can be "just like them". Even if the person is saying 'don't do this' those stories can, sound like something you would want to do too.

If there is going to be a moratorium, it should be on sharing stories on how you came in. If that stopped people would stop wanting to 'pledge'.