Sorority and Fraternity Costs

[ThetaPrincess24]

I so agree with my fellow sister here.

My chapter while going through recruitment looked like the msot expensive on paper, but turned out to actually be cheaper than the others not just in not having excess fees, but my chapter in particular did not fine our members for not coming to events(though recruitment and ritual things were).

I'm on facility corp. board for another chapter and again, it looks more expensive on paper, but all things considered it is again on that chapter's campus one of the cheapest.

Having said the above, dont assume Theta is the cheapest on every campus it is on because that may not always be the case, but do ask questions about excess fees/assessments and if the chapter fines it's members and if they do what they fine them on.(Be aware that not all chapters may reveal how much a fine is).

[33girl]

Originally posted by theta4life
Theta, for one, is a pay one price sorority. That means our chapter can not charge extras as the year goes on. We may be more expensive on paper, but we never ask our members to pay anything more to attend formal, or go to any other chapter function. Be sure you look into all the costs and ask the right questions.

The other side of that coin is, what if you have a wedding or something to go to that weekend and are unable to attend formal? Then you've paid for something you didn't get to participate in. And that sucks.

I just know that if we had said formal price was "built in" to our dues, and they were higher than other campus chapters as a result, we would have had some very angry members. Maybe this works at a campus where everyone has lots of money, but for us it would have been a disaster and very divisive.

[TSteven]

Originally posted by 33girl
The other side of that coin is, what if you have a wedding or something to go to that weekend and are unable to attend formal? Then you've paid for something you didn't get to participate in. And that sucks.

I just know that if we had said formal price was "built in" to our dues, and they were higher than other campus chapters as a result, we would have had some very angry members. Maybe this works at a campus where everyone has lots of money, but for us it would have been a disaster and very divisive.

This goes back to what theta4life posted. "Be sure you look into all the costs and ask the right questions."

Regardless of the 'wealth' of the campus, a PNM should know what their dues (costs) go toward as well as any other potential costs down the line. And then they may make up their minds accordingly.

[theta4life]

The other side of that coin is, what if you have a wedding or something to go to that weekend and are unable to attend formal? Then you've paid for something you didn't get to participate in. And that sucks.

How does a chapter plan a formal if they have everyone paying as they go? What if, at the last minute, or whenever, a large number of members decided they couldn't afford to go to formal, or whatever and aren't going to pay? Then, the formal is at the local VFW with a guy playing the accordian? I just think budgeting ahead, and most importantly, giving every member the right to participate in all chapter activities is important. Yes, it might suck if you can't go one year because of a family wedding or whatever. But you've got four years (usually) and you will hopefully make it to the other 3. That's just my opinion, and I guess that's why I'm a Theta!

I just believe in full disclosure, that's all.

[33girl]

Originally posted by theta4life
How does a chapter plan a formal if they have everyone paying as they go? What if, at the last minute, or whenever, a large number of members decided they couldn't afford to go to formal, or whatever and aren't going to pay? Then, the formal is at the local VFW with a guy playing the accordian? I just think budgeting ahead, and most importantly, giving every member the right to participate in all chapter activities is important. Yes, it might suck if you can't go one year because of a family wedding or whatever. But you've got four years (usually) and you will hopefully make it to the other 3. That's just my opinion, and I guess that's why I'm a Theta!

I just believe in full disclosure, that's all.

The formal is obviously planned far enough in advance that people have a window of time to tell the chair whether or not they are going. An establishment is chosen that will accomodate the whole group, if everyone should decide to go. You certainly don't decide whether or not to go to the formal on the day of the formal. Everyone has the "right" to participate, they just don't pay if they don't!! I mean, with your outlook, I should have been forced to buy a high school prom ticket to help defray the costs even if I didn't go.

And not everyone (more and more these days) is in a sorority for four years.

[Little E]

We paid our dues which covered all the major budget areas. We ususally budgeted enough money for one campus party, and would try to do two if we got the funding from a campus board.

We would budget some money to defray the cost of the DJ and then tickets would cover your meal, gift etc. Women had to say if they were coming and if they were bringing a date about two weeks out, but we got a good idea about one month out. Maybe it is just us country bumpkin folks, but that is plenty of time at most establishments to define your minimum guest counts.

We also told our pnm's how much to expect the ticket to be.

[CarolinaCutie]

33Girl, my chapter also has all-inclusive dues and it works well for us. You wouldn't be paying directly for Formal even if you chose not to go- you pay your Social dues and everyone pays the same amount. To me, once you start questioning dues because of your own personal attendance of chapter functions, it becomes a slippery slope. Should seniors not have to pay dues that go towards the Recruitment budget because they won't be there? Should chapter members not have to pay dues that go towards room reservations if they can't normally attend our chapter meetings?

Like you mentioned, formal is planned far in advance- far enough ahead where most everyone can attend. And most people understand that if they don't attend, they are not getting refunded. We avoid mentioning how much formal is costing us "per person" because that might lead to questioning like yours.

The benefit of dues like this is that you don't have girls not attending social events because they cannot afford it. With T-shirts and formal fees popping up in addition to dues, lots of girls feel overwhelmed. I absolutely LOVE the fact that I never have to pay for myself (or even my date!) to attend a function.

[33girl]

Originally posted by CarolinaCutie
33Girl, my chapter also has all-inclusive dues and it works well for us. You wouldn't be paying directly for Formal even if you chose not to go- you pay your Social dues and everyone pays the same amount. To me, once you start questioning dues because of your own personal attendance of chapter functions, it becomes a slippery slope. Should seniors not have to pay dues that go towards the Recruitment budget because they won't be there? Should chapter members not have to pay dues that go towards room reservations if they can't normally attend our chapter meetings?

All I can say is that our social dues were structured completely differently and had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with our formal. Our social dues were for mixers which we were required to attend. You were not required to attend formal.

Why wouldn't seniors be at Recruitment???

And what Little E described is pretty much my feelings also. I mean, whatever works for you fine...if that's the norm on your campus and none of the girls have a problem with prepaying and formal being included in dues that's great, I'm just stating that NWIH would that have worked with my chapter.

[Little E]

Originally posted by CarolinaCutie
We avoid mentioning how much formal is costing us "per person" because that might lead to questioning like yours.

Serious? If someone asked your social chair, or even during rush, what your avg ticket price is you would try not to tell them the info? Maybe I'm reading too much into that, but that doesn't sound too upfront and honest.

In terms of the slippery slope bit, it can happen where people try to argue. The fact is that we work with people's budget where we can because we understand tuition alone is $30,000 per yr,

However there are areas that are for the 'good' of the entire sorority. We can't make you attend a party but our reputation was based on it and you will be working security, no excuses.

With our chapter/campus culture, we just can't tell everyone to get totally dressed up, find a date and come to a dinner, you pick and choose your battles. If we told people that they HAD to come, they wouldn't come. We don't tell them they have and they DO almost all come. Call it our version of reverse psychology.

[TSteven]

Originally posted by 33girl
Why wouldn't seniors be at Recruitment???

I believe CarolinaCutie is pointing out that her chapter dues (budget) include costs associated with recruitment *for the following year*.

In other words, part of this past year's (2004-05) dues are budgeted for next fall's 2005 recruitment. As such, recent 2005 graduates - this past year's seniors - will not be active and or around for rush. Unless they come back as alumna or as grad students.

[TSteven]

Originally posted by Little E
Serious? If someone asked your social chair, or even during rush, what your avg ticket price is you would try not to tell them the info? Maybe I'm reading too much into that, but that doesn't sound too upfront and honest.

These costs aren't being hidden, they are part of the social dues. A small part at that.

When a PNM comes through she would be told by the social chair - or whomever is rushing her - that her dues for the year include such stuff as... and then she would be given the list which would include social activities for the year.

And as you pointed out regarding formals, most members *want* to attend. And usually those members that choose and/or can not attend, want and hope that their sisters have a wonderful time and are happy to have that small part of their dues go toward the experience. Even when they can not be there with them. Part of the whole sisterhood thing.

Since different chapters (campuses) are just that... different, each chapter should decide what works best for them budget wise. As such, many chapters have no issue including formal costs - and other social costs - up front and part of their dues.

[Little E]

I don't question why they do all inclusive, for many campus it works, mine it wouldn't have. And we did move more towards that by the time I graduated by including one t-shirt and gifts as part of dues.

I just was suprised that at the statement that they would rather not give a breakout of how much money goes to events like formal. The preference not to question and debate costs and where the groups money goes.

[TSteven]

Originally posted by Little E
I don't question why they do all inclusive, for many campus it works, mine it wouldn't have. And we did move more towards that by the time I graduated by including one t-shirt and gifts as part of dues.

I just was suprised that at the statement that they would rather not give a breakout of how much money goes to events like formal. The preference not to question and debate costs and where the groups money goes.

I'm sure that costs would be discussed/debated if it was brought up at chapter.

Any time there is a proposed increase in dues, the finance chair (or whomever is responsible) should always explain why there is a need to increase dues etc. And she should be able to give a detail explanation either at that time, or on request - as is the norm for the chapter.

Now as to why the preference to not question or debate costs during chapter is simply so that the meetings do not get bogged down with details (issues) that can be worked on outside of the chapter meeting. In the appropriate committee as it were.

In many cases, budgets are produced by a finance committee. The committee may or may not be a body of the whole chapter. If it is the whole chapter, then everyone would be part of the detail conversation. Otherwise, the budget details are discussed within the committee and the whole budget would then be forwarded out of committee to the membership for approval. Again, at this point, any detail discussion may take place within the membership as per the chapter's rules etc.

Now with respect to CarolinaCutie's scenario, the sisters joined *with the understanding* that part of their dues cover costs associated with social activities - including formal. As such, the *concept* of including the costs of the formal, as part of the dues, would not come up for discussion. Because it was understood at the time they joined.

[TSteven]

FYI: My quote below piggybacks on what CarolinaCutie posted.

Originally posted by TSteven

Now as to why the preference to not question or debate costs during chapter is simply so that the meetings do not get bogged down with details (issues) that can be worked on outside of the chapter meeting. In the appropriate committee as it were.

Originally posted by CarolinaCutie

...once you start questioning dues because of your own personal attendance of chapter functions, it becomes a slippery slope. Should seniors not have to pay dues that go towards the Recruitment budget because they won't be there? Should chapter members not have to pay dues that go towards room reservations if they can't normally attend our chapter meetings?

[CarolinaCutie]

Originally posted by TSteven
These costs aren't being hidden, they are part of the social dues. A small part at that.

When a PNM comes through she would be told by the social chair - or whomever is rushing her - that her dues for the year include such stuff as... and then she would be given the list which would include social activities for the year.

And as you pointed out regarding formals, most members *want* to attend. And usually those members that choose and/or can not attend, want and hope that their sisters have a wonderful time and are happy to have that small part of their dues go toward the experience. Even when they can not be there with them. Part of the whole sisterhood thing.

Since different chapters (campuses) are just that... different, each chapter should decide what works best for them budget wise. As such, many chapters have no issue including formal costs - and other social costs - up front and part of their dues.

This, and everything else you've said in this thread, is right on point with what happens in my chapter. It doesn't matter how much formal costs per person because we don't even break it down that way.