Can People Change?

ZetaPhi708 · #1 11-18-2013, 11:33 PM

What if you knew someone from your past, who is now a pastor at a church, but that person's past persona, if you will, was one of being an extremely not-really-a-nice-person ( without going into any details )?

Would you discretely visit their church? Listen to one of their sermons online?

Kevin · #2 11-18-2013, 11:38 PM

No, I don't think people really change. Especially terrible people who go into the clergy. They may have learned how to talk the talk of God. They may even write some good material and say what they say. At their core though, they are who they are.

DrPhil · #3 11-19-2013, 12:00 AM

Yes, people can change. It doesn't mean that everyone has to be open to their change. The world doesn't revolve around us therefore we don't need to be open to their change in order for it to occur and for there to be positive outcomes. I see this topic how I see humans, in general. Everyone has some shit with them and you would smell their shit if you walked in their shoes, knew everything there was to know about them, or knew what they were thinking. Everyone gets on at least one other person's nerves and that includes the holier than thou people of the world. Everyone has at least one person who thinks they are batshit crazy or worth avoiding. And everyone...I mean everyone...has at least one person who wonders why and how in the hell other people find their jokes funny or enjoy being around that person. With all of that in mind, it is important to remember that even the most heinous offenders have at least one person who loves them--even if from afar.

Also, it depends on what you mean by persona of "not-a-really-nice-person".

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZetaPhi708

Would you discretely visit their church? Listen to one of their sermons online?

What's the purpose? Are you bored? Are you a private investigator? Are you a journalist? Are you just curious?

If I was curious, I may listen to a sermon online. I may also visit the religious institution. However, I have nothing to hide so it wouldn't be in secret. It would be discreet in terms of having good judgment and poise. I wouldn't do any of this with the purpose of putting the person on blast. I also wouldn't do it with the purpose of acting as though my approval makes the world go 'round. As long as this person is living a lawful life, "God bless us everyone" like Tiny Tim.

MysticCat · #4 11-19-2013, 07:43 AM

What Dr. Phil said.

clarinette · #5 11-19-2013, 08:41 AM

I definitely think people can change, depending on life circumstances and other events. I'm not the same person I was in high school or college. But with regard to a personality change that drastic, I personally would question whether that person had it in them all along to be like that.

I personally might go to their church or listen to a sermon or two online, as long as I didn't have moral objections to the church itself. The only reason I might be discreet about it is if there's personal bad blood between the two of you, and I might not even attend the church if that were the case.

DubaiSis · #6 11-19-2013, 08:58 AM

I don't trust the motivation of MANY people who enter the clergy, so I wouldn't be confident in this person's turnaround. But it's none of my business. If this isn't your your church it doesn't matter if the guy is like the kid in There Will Be Blood. Buy hey, if you feel the spirit move you, go for it.

Sen's Revenge · #7 11-19-2013, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

No, I don't think people really change. Especially terrible people who go into the clergy. They may have learned how to talk the talk of God. They may even write some good material and say what they say. At their core though, they are who they are.

This. All of this.

I knew a woman who was a terrible person to me. At some point she went on an apology tour and sent me a message with a blanket apology for unspecified things she had done to me.

I accepted her apology, but I still don't trust her. Never will. And not interested in her sermons.

ibis · #8 11-19-2013, 09:51 AM

Of course people can change.
People change because of events and people they meet daily in their lives.

People I met early in my life who were unkind and met say at reunions were totally different people as they grew older.

Tulip86 · #9 11-19-2013, 10:46 AM

Behavior changes, people hardly ever do.

TonyB06 · #10 11-19-2013, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZetaPhi708

What if you knew someone from your past, who is now a pastor at a church, but that person's past persona, if you will, was one of being an extremely not-really-a-nice-person ( without going into any details )?

Would you discretely visit their church? Listen to one of their sermons online?

People have the capacity to change. Some do, and some don't.

A tree is known by the fruit it bears. Over time, people who really do change consistently carry themselves in a different, more "reformed" (for want of a better term) way.

As to the church thing, do what you feel. If you don't feel confident in that person's leadership (for whatever reason), go elsewhere. Why would anyone sit up under leadership they didn't trust?

Last point ... if you deny others' capacity to change, do you deny the same possibility for yourself?

AGDee · #11 11-19-2013, 12:31 PM

I think people can change, especially if something significant has happened in their lives that made them really evaluate themselves. My father is a significantly different person since his first heart attack which helped him realize what is truly important in life.

maconmagnolia · #12 11-19-2013, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee

I think people can change, especially if something significant has happened in their lives that made them really evaluate themselves.

I completely agree. I also think that during certain periods of life people can change. I am a completely different person now that I'm a college student than I was when I was in high school. I had some things happen to me that helped me mature and grow significantly.

lake · #13 11-19-2013, 06:43 PM

I don't think people change who they really are. I had this very same conversation with a friend of mine this past weekend. She's just out of a relationship and is on the rebound. She has started seeing a new guy who "has a past". Alcoholism, drug addiction, and beating the living crap out of his ex-girlfriends. My friend is all, "But he's been sober for five years", and "He's been really upfront with me about his past and the things he's done", and "But no one is the same person they were in the past". That's all fine and nice, but honestly, a leopard doesn't change his spots. Those violent, destructive qualities are still part of who he is as a person, even though they may be somewhat under wraps due to sobriety. I hope she is never unfortunate enough to experience that first-hand.

ElieM · #14 11-19-2013, 07:51 PM

"extremely not-really-a-nice-person" as in "picked on me in grade school" or as in "likes to beat puppies and other small mammals to death"?

If the first kind, let it go and accept the change. If the second, it might be worth more investigation

ZetaPhi708 · #15 11-20-2013, 08:05 AM

Sorry for all of the ambiguity but I was just wanting to pose a philosophical question, as I was looking up someone online that I had not seen or heard from in over 25 years and discovered that they had become a pastor of a church.

As for the phrase "not-so-nice" past, I was trying to not actually go into details about that individual. Plus, I have no intention of visiting their church but with today's internet databases, I think I would just listen to one of their online sermons to see what it is they are preaching.