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  #301  
Old Yesterday, 03:45 PM
ForeverRoses ForeverRoses is online now
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Originally Posted by shadokat View Post
I really AM going to step on some toes here, so sorry already.

We talk about that women aren't mature enough to make the decision to join the sorority without letting the tent talk and ranks affect them. Part of that onus has to sit on the parents. As an advisor, I have so many women that don't like a rule or something else that run to their parent and have their parent call me about it. These women are adults, so let them face the consequences of their choices. Sure, you can be there for them for comfort, but it's not your job to make things "right" in their eyes. I get that every parent wants their kid to get all they wish for in life, but in reality, that's not going to happen.

I'm sure there are plenty of open spots in IU sororities, but they just may not be at the house you were dead set to join. The top houses are not doing informal, and that's just more reality. Lots of moms say that their kid has a 4.0, is solving world peace and a supermodel to boot, but trust me, so are most of the women going through recruitment. Whatever the reasoning, these women got what they got, and if they want to be Greek, they can stay in the process and see how it works out, or they can drop and cry in their rooms that they aren't in top tier ABC.

Sorry, that last line was probably mean. I just had a rant
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  #302  
Old Yesterday, 04:44 PM
Midwestmom Midwestmom is offline
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Originally Posted by shadokat View Post
Lots of moms say that their kid has a 4.0, is solving world peace and a supermodel to boot, but trust me, so are most of the women going through recruitment.
This made me LOL at my desk. There have been several times this year that I've had to remind my super special snowflake that every one of the women in her house is exactly as super special as she is. In high school, her achievements stood out but in her sorority? Not so much. It's been a good learning, growing experience.

... and I've not once called anyone to complain about it. I can't imagine the patience it takes to deal with those phone calls.
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  #303  
Old Yesterday, 04:58 PM
ForeverRoses ForeverRoses is online now
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Originally Posted by Midwestmom View Post
... and I've not once called anyone to complain about it. I can't imagine the patience it takes to deal with those phone calls.
and text messages, and emails, and facebook messages, and Instagram messages, and rude facebook posts...
and if they don't get the answer they want then they call headquarters. Those people are the real saints.
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  #304  
Old Yesterday, 05:36 PM
andthen andthen is offline
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Originally Posted by ForeverRoses View Post
and text messages, and emails, and facebook messages, and Instagram messages, and rude facebook posts...
and if they don't get the answer they want then they call headquarters. Those people are the real saints.
It doesn't necessarily get better once they graduate. I used to work for an organization where people applied to get into a program that if accepted they'd get overseas work experience. Part of that included a medical exam which I reviewed the reports from the applicant's medical providers, I've gotten several calls from upset parents, people posting online about how mean this person was, or that person was etc. So for some the entitlement continues after college. Granted I'm sure its 10% that make up for 90% of the headaches.

But yes, I do feel for advisors and headquarters staff, I cannot imagine what they see and deal with on a regular basis.
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  #305  
Old Yesterday, 05:37 PM
Rod D Rod D is offline
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Originally Posted by shadokat View Post

Lots of moms say that their kid has a 4.0, is solving world peace and a supermodel to boot, but trust me, so are most of the women going through recruitment.
While admirable, that doesn't necessarily make you a "top tier" prospect.
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  #306  
Old Yesterday, 06:04 PM
ForrestGrump ForrestGrump is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
Thatís what I was going to say. It was either Alabama or Mizzouís Reek Grank where the main reason for impugning certain chapters was their low GPA and involvement. That was certainly a new one on me.
I do admit to occasionally looking at Mizzou's Reek Grank site (hey, I have family and lots of friends who were in GLO's there). Although there is the usual tiresome chatter about which houses have the hottest women, there is a lot of talk about which houses also have the best sisterhoods, good grades and are the most involved on campus. There is also a fair amount of criticism regularly leveled at a couple of the chapters who seem to be focused more on recruiting pretty party girls to the detriment of grades, sisterhood, philanthropy and/or involvement. Mizzou's Panhellenic also seems to be very focused on stamping out hazing and major alcohol problems, issues which used to get a lot of houses at Mizzou in major trouble.* The one thing I do see on Mizzou's Reek Grank page that I find surprising is the competitiveness over who has the prettiest house(s). A few chapters have torn down their old mansions and rebuilt even spiffier versions, while several more have done major renovations in recent years. Apparently real estate envy begins early!

*Edited to add that fraternities at Mizzou are, unfortunately, still getting into trouble over alcohol and hazing issues, with several chapters having charters pulled in recent years, including the charter of one of the largest and most popular fraternities early in the fall semester.
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  #307  
Old Yesterday, 06:48 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Originally Posted by shadokat View Post

I'm sure there are plenty of open spots in IU sororities, but they just may not be at the house you were dead set to join. The top houses are not doing informal, and that's just more reality. Lots of moms say that their kid has a 4.0, is solving world peace and a supermodel to boot, but trust me, so are most of the women going through recruitment. Whatever the reasoning, these women got what they got, and if they want to be Greek, they can stay in the process and see how it works out, or they can drop and cry in their rooms that they aren't in top tier ABC.

Sorry, that last line was probably mean. I just had a rant
Girlfriend, you and I both know that even at our tiny little alma maters there were plenty of former Miss Everythings who got a wake up call. I canít imagine going off to a school the size of a small city and thinking you are still going to be queen of all you survey. I guess thatís what they mean when they say kids are not taught how to reason anymore.
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  #308  
Old Yesterday, 07:06 PM
BUDelta4Life BUDelta4Life is offline
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Originally Posted by GreekOne View Post
I just watched the RBG movie "On the Basis of Sex". It was inspiring how she fought for fair treatment. This tier system won't change until someone initiates change with similar bravery.

If Panhellenic voted to implement random pairs perhaps it could happen. Then again, I wonder if fraternities were "forced" to invite certain chapters over if they would be gracious hosts. Perhaps a "top tier" chapter and a "bottom tier" chapter invited at the same time would be as eye opening for these men as it was for ForeverRoses when she met the chapters' recruitment chairs.
THIS. ^^ Panhellenic has the power to change it. But, even on Panhel, you have representatives of chapters who like it this way. If Panhel and IFC worked together and created a random, rotating structure, this would stop. It would be bumpy at first, but after a few years, it would be the norm.

Also, the idea of pairing some sorority chapters together is a good one and would (should?) be eye-opening for the men. As an undergraduate of a chapter that sometimes struggled with an unfair reputation, we found this to be enormously helpful on my campus. We joined with two other chapters for a shared social with two other fraternities, and we started to get a lot of comments from the men such as, "Wow, I didn't know you had so many nice/fun/sweet girls in your house." It does work.

Last edited by BUDelta4Life; Yesterday at 07:17 PM.
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  #309  
Old Yesterday, 07:23 PM
BUDelta4Life BUDelta4Life is offline
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Originally Posted by NYCMS View Post
I could swear I read last year about some campus where they did this type of pairing of sororities with a fraternity and it came off fairly well . We didn't have matched pairs on my campus - we had mixers with every house and fraternities did the same with every sorority.

As for the girls who SIP'd, it's sad because we know many girls accept a bid to a house they're unsure about and then fall in love with their sisters and sorority and later wouldn't change a thing. I've seen that with girls who went to two pref parties and got the house "they didn't want" and gave it a shot and loved it.

I'm not sure how to change this mentality because from what I hear from friends (with daughters in college) and read on here, it seems like more and more girls either SIP or don't show up to the house they got a bid to - or they do accept a bid to the "house they didn't want" and then drop out in a matter of weeks without really giving it a shot. I don't recall that happening much when I was in school but then that was many decades ago.
On my undergrad campus, "pairs" for big all-campus events such as homecoming were (and still are) set by Student Affairs and Student Government. It's a running random rotation; the list shifts every year. Additionally, non-Greek housing units and commuters are included. So ABC sorority and XYZ fraternity might also be paired with a dorm. These are the groups you compete with for the events, such as homecoming decorations or spirit challenges, and these are the groups you socialize with on the day/evening of the event. It's a great way for people to get to know each other all over campus, and whether or not they would be the typical groups to party together, they end up having fun. It really helps overall relations on the campus. As far as other random parties and social events go, each house eventually ends up socializing with all the other houses. While some sororities and fraternities might socialize together more often than others, the groups on campus make a real effort to eventually do things with everyone else. They are now in the habit of having tons of smaller philanthropy events (such as ice cream sundaes on a week night at one house), too, and all the other GLOs are invited. I see tons of photos from these on social media with members of many different GLOs mingling and having fun together. It really helps promote panhellenic spirit.
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  #310  
Old Yesterday, 07:31 PM
GreekOne GreekOne is offline
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^^^ Love that. Wish it happened everywhere. I have twins who are both at Big10 schools and this is not the norm at either.
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  #311  
Old Yesterday, 07:52 PM
ForrestGrump ForrestGrump is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUDelta4Life View Post
THIS. ^^ Panhellenic has the power to change it. But, even on Panhel, you have representatives of chapters who like it this way. If Panhel and IFC worked together and created a random, rotating structure, this would stop. It would be bumpy at first, but after a few years, it would be the norm.

Also, the idea of pairing some sorority chapters together is a good one and would (should?) be eye-opening for the men. As an undergraduate of a chapter that sometimes struggled with an unfair reputation, we found this to be enormously helpful on my campus. We joined with two other chapters for a shared social with two other fraternities, and we started to get a lot of comments from the men such as, "Wow, I didn't know you had so many nice/fun/sweet girls in your house." It does work.
Back in the stone ages, when I was an active, fraternities would often pair up with a couple of the sororities for the larger theme-party events. It helped spread the wealth as far as party planning and prep was concerned, and ensured that the fraternity had a solid group of women in attendance for the "formative" hours of the party (at my campus, such parties were typically closed for the first one or two hours, and then opened to everyone). To be honest, I found those parties more fun -- you can bond a lot with other women while browning 50 pounds of hamburger for tacos, and perfecting the margarita recipe.
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  #312  
Old Yesterday, 11:07 PM
Rod D Rod D is offline
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Originally Posted by BUDelta4Life View Post
On my undergrad campus, "pairs" for big all-campus events such as homecoming were (and still are) set by Student Affairs and Student Government. It's a running random rotation; the list shifts every year. Additionally, non-Greek housing units and commuters are included. So ABC sorority and XYZ fraternity might also be paired with a dorm. These are the groups you compete with for the events, such as homecoming decorations or spirit challenges, and these are the groups you socialize with on the day/evening of the event. It's a great way for people to get to know each other all over campus, and whether or not they would be the typical groups to party together, they end up having fun. It really helps overall relations on the campus. As far as other random parties and social events go, each house eventually ends up socializing with all the other houses. While some sororities and fraternities might socialize together more often than others, the groups on campus make a real effort to eventually do things with everyone else. They are now in the habit of having tons of smaller philanthropy events (such as ice cream sundaes on a week night at one house), too, and all the other GLOs are invited. I see tons of photos from these on social media with members of many different GLOs mingling and having fun together. It really helps promote panhellenic spirit.
Something like that might work at a smaller school where the students generally know each other. But at a large school, it's just not viable. IU greek life has over 8,000 students -- more than a lot of school's total enrollments. You really can't force participation. They could do some type of greek carnival or concert or some big event to get everyone to mix. The university is restricting the number of organizations who can participate in events as well. Used to have 6 and 8 houses at big events. Now, no more than 4. That might actually make the problem worse.
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  #313  
Old Yesterday, 11:14 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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I think it was at Penn State that they cut down on the number of ď4 waysĒ groups were allowed to have per semester.
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  #314  
Old Yesterday, 11:51 PM
TriDeltaSallie TriDeltaSallie is offline
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Originally Posted by GreekOne View Post
Could not agree with you more. I wish more fraternity men understood this. Unfortunately, the fraternities extend the invitations and therefore hold the cards. If the invitation is never extended, the sorority women have no way to help these young men come to realize what you did years ago.

Our social system (in the 80s) was as you and others have described. We mixed with absolutely every single chapter on campus. There were no artificial barriers established that prevented that. I think the kids today are really missing the boat on this. If the social stigma was removed, the issues with all the dropping, SIPs, etc would follow.

At IU, it is just as bad for the fraternity men. The chapters without houses are labeled as "irrelevant". Yet, I am sure they are enjoying themselves just as much as those living it up on N Jordan.

If only these 18/19 yo collegians could see it through our eyes
Not sure where you and PhilTau went to college, but I can assure you that tiers existed well before that site. Tiers were so bad on my campus in the late 80s that top tier women would cross the street on the main sorority row rather than pass by lower tier women. Top tier houses nominated a much less qualified top tier woman to run for Panhel President against a much more qualified lower tier woman because it was unthinkable that a lower tier woman would be Panhel President. (The lower tier woman won and was fantastic.) At one point Panhel insisted on bringing in a new sorority even though there were FIVE chapters that struggled to make quota each year. Rather than working to help those five chapters succeed, they would rather bring in another sorority.

Tiers rarely mixed for parties. Top tier sororities partied with top tier fraternities. Middle tier sororities partied with middle tier fraternities. And lower tier sororities partied with lower tier fraternities.

And I can tell you by reading about my campus on that site that nothing has changed.

I just thank God I was Greek before smart phones. social media, and all the rest.
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  #315  
Old Today, 07:52 AM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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Amen, Sallie! I was at Alabama in the 60s and Old Row and the Machine existed then as they do now. The division wasn't quite as strict as IU then nor is it now. But the culture definitely exists.
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