The Murder of Trayvon Martin

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Yes, you can.

(No shade) I obviously disagree, but I'm curious why you feel that way. IIRC, I've seen you post to aspirants telling them to dress/speak appropriately when seeking membership in GLOs or face rejection. Why wouldn't the same hold true outside of the Greek world?

I think that, ESPECIALLY in the AA community, we should mindful of these things so that we're not "setting people back xx years" (for lack of a better phrase).

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Exactly and that is the problem.

You have a freedom but you ALSO have a responsibility.

Part of what bothers me about our younger kids coming up today is that some are not being TAUGHT that they are already stereotyped by looks alone and BY ACTING OUT those stereotypes they further along those stereotypes.

Yep.

And like DrPhil said, this side "issue" is taking away from the situation at hand, but what do we expect from a former "shock" journalist?

-----

Restating one more time: No, I don't think that a hoodie caused his death or that a mini-skirt invites rape.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Obviously, an interview is not the only place where you should be concerned with appearances. (General) You are grown, so dress however you want, but you can't get mad if you are stereotyped as a "hood" or "thug"

It depends.

If you are Black wearing a "hoodie", then yes, you are most likely stereotyped as a thug. If you are White wearing a "hoodie", then you are most likely stereotyped as cool.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

It depends.

If you are Black wearing a "hoodie", then yes, you are most likely stereotyped as a thug. If you are White wearing a "hoodie", then you are most likely stereotyped as cool.

True.

I was trying to think of this outside of the Trayvon Martin context, though, so I'm not only referring to hoodies.

[DrPhil]

@ TonyB06

The main issue is whether Zimmerman should be arrested and tried for the incident to get this away from the court of public opinion and let a judge and jury determine whether Zimmerman was lawful. Legal and extralegal factors will be considered and the main issue will be what Zimmerman and Martin were doing in that context that sparked and fueled the incident. It may not matter what Zimmerman and Martin were wearing other than how surface level appearance can fuel perception (raise your hand if you always act based on perception). Did Zimmerman have the legal right to be, what I consider, Billy Badass? Zimmerman did not know that Martin had gotten trouble in school just as Martin probably did not know that Zimmerman was (what some consider overzealous) neighborhood watch.

Just like when a robber enters a family's home, sure we can think the family was dumb for not having a security system and leaving their doors unlocked. That is victim precipitation. Moving on, the robber is still a robber because the robber was uninvited.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

True.

I was trying to think of this outside of the Trayvon Martin context, though, so I'm not only referring to hoodies.

Hoodies, sagging jeans, shirts that make you 'walking advertisements', jerseys, hats and of course hair styles.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

(No shade) I obviously disagree, but I'm curious why you feel that way. IIRC, I've seen you post to aspirants telling them to dress/speak appropriately when seeking membership in GLOs or face rejection. Why wouldn't the same hold true outside of the Greek world?

I think that, ESPECIALLY in the AA community, we should mindful of these things so that we're not "setting people back xx years" (for lack of a better phrase).

But isn't giving in to the way white people think you should dress setting people back xx years? Why should one dress for the comfort of white people, or people in general?

When certain items of clothing are "ok" for Justin Bieber to wear, but not "ok" for Trayvon Martin, doesn't that say more about the problem than "young black men should not wear hoodies because it makes them look 'hood'?"

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by agzg

Why should one dress for the comfort of white people, or people in general?

We are already at a disadvantage and negatively stereotyped just by the color of our skin. Add onto that what we are wearing and then how it's worn. Finally, take said us and put us into a public situation and and watch how we act. Does it increase or lessen the stereotypes that non blacks have towards us?

In most cases it doesn't even matter what we wear, but I think part of the issue is the attitude of those who play right into the stereotypes by acting out in public and do nothing BUT reinforce what non blacks believe about us.

Still, at the end of the day it gives no one the right to chase another down and kill them just because they 'fit the description'.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by agzg

But isn't giving in to the way white people think you should dress setting people back xx years? Why should one dress for the comfort of white people, or people in general?

If you want to make it in a "white man's world," you sometimes have to dress the part. As long as we're a power minority, it's something we have to deal with.

When certain items of clothing are "ok" for Justin Bieber to wear, but not "ok" for Trayvon Martin, doesn't that say more about the problem than "young black men should not wear hoodies because it makes them look 'hood'?"

Yes, it is a problem. That's nothing new.

ETA: Bieber is on Access Hollywood right now wearing "urban" attire (including a hoodie). Speak of the devil...

[DrPhil]

"I'll be damn gag me with a spoon."

~ Greg Nice, Nice & Smooth, Hip Hop Junkies

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

The main issue is whether Zimmerman should be arrested and tried for the incident to get this away from the court of public opinion and let a judge and jury determine whether Zimmerman was lawful. Legal and extralegal factors will be considered and the main issue will be what Zimmerman and Martin were doing in that context that sparked and fueled the incident.

I agree. This is near getting out of control and I personally blame the media with their "bits and pieces" reporting style concerning this incident. They are leaving a lot of room for people to make their own assumptions here, which is not good regarding an incident of this level (see NBPP and their "bounty"). The general public doesn't know all that went down that night so lets hope all parties stay cool headed while the numerous agencies investigating this do their thing.

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

The general public doesn't know all that went down that night so lets hope all parties stay cool headed while the numerous agencies investigating this do their thing.

Too freakin' late for that..... I think it will be a miracle if Zimmerman lives through this.

[amIblue?]

Late to the thread, but I think the only thing that Trayvon Martin could have worn to have avoided Zimmerman would have been a white boy costume.

So sad that this child was murdered.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

IIRC, I've seen you post to aspirants telling them to dress/speak appropriately when seeking membership in GLOs or face rejection.

Originally Posted by agzg

But isn't giving in to the way white people think you should dress setting people back xx years? Why should one dress for the comfort of white people, or people in general?

When certain items of clothing are "ok" for Justin Bieber to wear, but not "ok" for Trayvon Martin, doesn't that say more about the problem than "young black men should not wear hoodies because it makes them look 'hood'?"

This exactly.

[I2K Beta Mu]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Again, folks can do what they want, but just realize that it may or may not cause others to perceive you a certain way.

And what I'm saying to you is folks are going to perceive you in a certain way regardless of what you wear.

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Yes, you can.

Thank you.

[knight_shadow]

Let's try this again.

1. NO, Trayvon did not deserve to die because of his outfit.

2. YES, Geraldo was an idiot for saying that the outfit resulted in his death.

BUT

1. Taking Trayvon out of the picture, we all know that if you dress a certain way, people will perceive you a certain way.

If k_s walks past you on the street at night with a business suit and a briefcase, you will probably react differently than if k_s walked past you on the street in Timbs, a beater, and XXXL pants that are sagging. Does this mean that one k_s is better than the other? No, but it does mean that one k_s will be PERCEIVED a different way.

2. Geraldo is a media personality. He doesn't make money if nobody cares about what he has to say. To all the people who say "HOW DARE HE!? WHO DOES HE THINK HE IS!?" -- it's giving him headlines. It's making him relevant again.